250 is a Big Number (episode 250)

Transcript

Future Jake:
[0:00] Hey listeners, a quick note before the show starts, this conversation was recorded live and only lightly edited.
You’re gonna hear some artifacts that don’t usually make it into one of my episodes, like my dog’s collar jingling in the background or me bumping the mic stand, and I started gesturing wildly.
You’ll also hear me. Future jake chime in a few times with details or corrections that I should have thought of in the moment.

Music

Aaron:
[0:32] Welcome to hub history, where we go far beyond the freedom trail to share our favorite stories from the history of boston, the hub of the universe.
This is episode 2 50. I’m your host, Aaron from pilgrims digress, and I’m going to be joined by your host, Jakes. Conyers.
Hi jake! How are you doing.

Jake:
[0:50] Hey, that’s me, I’m doing great.

Aaron:
[0:53] Jake. What am I doing here?

Jake:
[0:55] That is an probably the question that all our listeners are asking right now.
I thought for episode 2 50 it’d be fun to, to sort of turn the tables and instead of me interviewing somebody or doing my sort of normal scripted narrative podcast to talk a little bit about,
the show and myself and what’s gotten us here over the past, I guess six years now.

Aaron:
[1:19] Yes, I’m so excited to be here jake. We talked before on my podcast programs digress and we had such a good time.
And so you asked me to come along and get you going and get your listeners up to date on 250 episodes. How does that feel?

Jake:
[1:36] 250 felt really momentous part of it has to be all the 250th anniversaries that are either upcoming or just happened. I know we just had the 250th anniversary of the the Boston massacre.
It’s kind of like the last thing that a lot of us did before we all went on lockdown in 2020. It was the last big public gathering I went to for basically two years, it was the last time I met new people in person for at least a year.
We have the anniversary of the tea party coming up next year and then come 25.
That will be all the big local, you know, Lexington and Concord, Bunker Hill, all the big stuff. So As I look at 250 episodes, I guess I’m just sort of tying it back to all the Revolutionary War anniversaries and also it’s just a big number.

Aaron:
[2:27] Jake You and I are both transplants to boston Could you walk us through your history with the hub?

Jake:
[2:33] Yeah, I moved to boston. Well I’ve actually moved to Boston three times in my life.
But the time that I count for the most part is I came here in 97, for school, like Many, many, many Boston residents, not a Boston native.
I showed up here like I said in 1997 to attend northeastern university.

[2:55] I love the town. I made the mistake after college of leaving the town and I pretty quickly realized that leaving had been a mistake and that I needed to get back to boston as soon as I could.
I’ve lived in different places around when I was in college, I lived in the Mission Hill northeastern area.
I lived in Somerville for a while. I lived in Austin for a while and then after I moved back to boston, I lived in Mission Hill, right on Parker Hill.
Av that was a great apartment. I can’t believe I gave it up in retrospect, I lived in Watertown and then since 2009 I’ve lived in the Hyde Park neighborhood here in Boston,
But I say I’ve moved to Boston three times because also when I was an infant, my parents took jobs in the Boston area.
And so we lived in Quincy for the first few years of my life.
One of my little claims to fame is, I feel like I’m one of the few civilians who can say I’ve been to Long Island in boston harbor Because I have no memory of it.
But when the tall ships came in, I think in 1980 or maybe, my mom says she put me in the basket on the back of her bike and rode out to Long Island across the Moon Island Causeway.
The, it’s usually closed to the public, but for the, for the tall ships, they’re allowing residents of Quincy specifically to go out and watch the tall ships from out there. So I got to do that a little bragging rights even though I like I said, I have zero memory of actually doing that.

[4:20] What’s amazing is that I’ve been here for, for 25 years now. Not counting that first, that first stint as an infant. Well, I’m getting old.

Aaron:
[4:29] Well, I would consider you a true blue bostonian brochure. Uh, you know, even though you didn’t grow up in the south, the, you know, the other stuff, uh, you’ve definitely been around and been here for quite a long time.

Jake:
[4:42] Yeah. My adopted hometown. I can’t claim to be from boston, but boston is my home.

Aaron:
[4:47] How did you get into the actual history of boston? What, what sparked your interest in that? And what would you say is particular about boston’s history?

Jake:
[4:58] Yeah, I guess going going way back, I actually had a conversation with my mom sometime in the past year or so.
We were the sort of family when I was growing up, you know, we were middle class, but we weren’t like awash in money.
We, I grew up in a very rural Appalachia where you know, sort of the bar from middle middle class may be different than some other places.

[5:19] But we weren’t the sort of like, we didn’t ever go to Disneyland we didn’t go to,
and a lot of the typically didn’t go to Myrtle Beach, we would go to like Antietam or Gettysburg or Yorktown because they’re all sort of within a day’s drive and mostly free except for like the gas to get there.
And if you got a hotel overnight, all my memories of, of kind of like childhood vacations and activities are all kind of history based.
And then a lot of the credit for sparking interest in boston history in particular comes from my, my wife and, and co host of the show America Nicky,
when she was in, I’m not sure if she was in undergrad or if she was in law school at the time, but at some point she got a job with one of the ghost tour outfits in boston versus a guide and then doing back office kind of stuff and,
through that we ended up starting our own walking tour company just to treat the history a little more seriously than a lot of the ghost tours do.
I guess we started that in 2012, we ran that for two summers. We had a great time and ended up taking up all of our time and we didn’t get rich from it.
And after a couple of seasons we had to just say like we’re hanging up our boots and just precluded any other activities.
We were doing that six days a week, but it was fun and we, you know, we really got into, we developed, we had a tour of the back bay focusing on sort of the creation of the Back Bay landfill project. We had a tour of the North End focused on pirates and patriots.

[6:45] We had a historical crimes and scandals of Beacon Hill Walking tour. We had several at a Halloween theme tours. So we had several tours.
I feel like we were doing good history. So we wanted to find ways to keep doing that for a while.
I was, I was, I had adapted some of our, our tour material. I was doing some classes teaching some classes at the Cambridge Center for adult ed and through that I got hooked up with an outfit called History Camp.
So I did some volunteer work with them for a couple of years. And then Nikki and I both were volunteer docents at the Shirley Eustis House historic Home in Roxbury for the summer of 2016 and that’s where the idea of doing a podcast was born.
We, we’re having a slow afternoon one weekend, probably a saturday afternoon and we’re in sort of the bullpen area where the docents would hang out in between tours, waiting for our turn to go out and show somebody the house.
And we’re just trading stories back and forth, just trying to one up each other with weird or offbeat or unknown stories about boston history.
And at some point it was like, whoa, wait a minute, we actually know a lot of crazy stories about boston.
Let’s start writing some of this down. So somewhere I have a steno pad With a list of maybe 20 or 25 topics. That was the sort of the germ of the idea of what would become hub history.
A few months later, after I did some research on.

[8:11] So how do you start a podcast? What is it, what are these, these microphones and things that people need to start a podcast?
So, you know, there are a few months of like technical research and, and idea development and things like that.
But we ended up starting the podcast in october 2016, I think it was the week before Halloween,
we kicked off, our first episode was about about Pops Night in boston sort of ancient new England tradition of hating Catholics and burning the Pope in effigy and things like that.
All those, you know, wholesome activities that we would get into in prerevolutionary boston.

Aaron:
[8:48] Prerevolutionary boston childhood travels.
When I was a kid, I lived when my parents finally got enough money to take us on vacations.
We lived in southern Maryland that was really close and we used to go to all the places around there in Williamsburg Virginia.
So I’ve been To the water country, I’ve been to the Busch gardens and we went to that colonial Williamsburg. I bet you have been 10 times.
Have you been to Williamsburg? And how is it different from the, from the boston experience?

Jake:
[9:18] Yeah, it’s, it’s funny. Nikki and I just went to colonial Williamsburg for the first time a couple of months ago.

Aaron:
[9:24] Dude, my parents are there right now. Yes.

Jake:
[9:26] Is that right? Somehow with all the, So the heritage tourism, I guess one would call it today that we did as a kid that never made it onto the list.
I, I know I went to the Yorktown Battlefield which is like 15 minutes away down the road as I’m looking at Williamsburg for the first time in March or april, it’s a reproduction.
I didn’t realize it until I was there.
Like I’m going through and I’m looking at Like the photos of the restorations.
It’s all sort of like early to mid 20th century creations to evoke, right?

Aaron:
[9:59] Even the paint, You can tell just by the paint.

Jake:
[10:02] I didn’t realize this until I was there and I was really let down by the experience in Williamsburg because I’m used to boston where yes, all our historic sites are sort of wedged in between,
you know, modern towers and, and you know, there’s a Dunkin donuts on either side of everything,
But it’s the real thing like Yes, Faneuil Hall was expanded and changed in the 19th century.

Aaron:
[10:22] Yeah,
boston massacre happened where you’re standing.

Jake:
[10:29] Right? You know, and yeah, the old state house, there was a fire burned to the bare walls in 1711, but it’s still the same building.
Like it’s on the side, it’s the real building. It’s all, it’s authentic in a way that colonial Williamsburg just wasn’t, it felt really weird. That was really let down by it.

Aaron:
[10:48] I found that here in boston, it’s mostly just like people telling you about what happened, you know, green shirt, national parks or whatever.
Uh, and Williamsburg. My parents just sent me a video. It’s all like reenactors have dinner with thomas, jefferson.

Jake:
[11:03] I have, I have strong feelings about that. Um.

Aaron:
[11:06] Wow.

Jake:
[11:08] I can’t, I have a really hard time relating to first person historical interpreters for for me when I’m, when I’m trying to really learn at a historic site, I have a hard time learning from the person who won’t break character.
So for me the perfect example is plimoth plantation here in mass. Right?
So in the village, you know the interpreters are all the first person that they’ve done extensive research on the characters they portray the era they live in.
All that. You know, I have a close friend who used to be an interpreter there and you know, they do a lot of research, they’re very knowledgeable But they never break character and for me like I can’t ask questions about context and like compare eras and like well how did that change going into the 18th century,
when you walk down the little path and into the woods and there’s the wampanoag village right there also.
And the wampanoags are also costumed interpreters there.
You know, they are members of the wampanoag nation but they’re not first person interpreters, their costumes, they are talking about what their ancestors did but they can give historical context.

Aaron:
[12:06] Okay.

Jake:
[12:14] They can compare eras and so I actually learn a lot more from that interchange where I can talk about. Okay, so what were things like then compared to now are compared to a different historical era.

Aaron:
[12:18] Interesting.

[12:26] Yeah. Williamsburg is very it’s kind of hokey. Um There’s I don’t know if you did the yes. Yeah it’s.

Jake:
[12:30] It was, it was fun. I had a good time. I don’t want to get the wrong idea but but I was a little bit let down by the inauthenticity of it.

Aaron:
[12:37] When you were not let down by the amount of gift shops because there’s plenty of them.

Jake:
[12:41] Oh yeah, I, I bought, I bought my share of magnets for sure listeners as a tease.
Our next episode will be an interview with an author about a new book about the creation of the freedom trail and the creation of the boston National Historic Park.
So reading that it was, it was really interesting as the historic park was being pulled together right before the bicentennial and the sort of the mid seventies, there was a lot of thought that that Williamsburg would be the model and they were talking about,
demolishing big swaths of what’s now like the north end and,
all these buildings that weren’t here in the revolution.
I’ve got to go and then we’re gonna bring in all these first, you know, these reenactors and we’ll have like a colonial village set up and so it could have been a very different path for boston if some decisions have been made differently.
So tune in next time. We’ll talk more about that after I finished the book.

Aaron:
[13:35] Uh, so you talked about you and Nikki, uh, being at the Shirley Eustis House, being docents there. Um, and so you kick off the podcast and Nikki is host America.
What exactly does that mean? If if if I’m sure your listeners already know, but enlighten me a little bit and tell us well, but maybe a little about her journey.

Jake:
[13:55] For the first two or three years at least of the show.
Nikki and I were very much equal partners in creating the show.
We would trade weeks back and forth. So each one of us would essentially have two weeks to prepare a show.
One of us would write a show we both presented then the other one would write a show and we both presented and then, you know, professionally things started changing for her after about three years or so she, she took a step back.
She would still come on and present with me sometimes and occasionally write a show by taking less and less of an active part in making the show.
And then she got an amazing job offer a little while back.
And so she formally left the show and that’s when she became the co host of Merida, when she left to be the executive director of the old North Foundation. So the organization that runs the old north historic site on the Freedom Trail.

Aaron:
[14:46] WOW!

Jake:
[14:47] Um, so she, you know, I really miss having her on the show. I miss being able to, you know, share the load of creating the show, but she got really just a history lover’s dream job. So you can’t begrudge somebody for taking that.
So everybody go visible north, buy stuff at the gift shop, buy a ticket to the Crypt and all that.
They’re coming up 2023 will be the 300th anniversary of the church itself and then in 2025 will be the, the 250th anniversary of the lantern signals from, from the steeple there.
So a lot of exciting stuff coming up for her. But unfortunately not as part of my podcast.
And the funny thing is, you know, I catch myself, I tried, I’ve been trying to train myself after years of saying we do the podcast and you know, welcome to hub history where we go far beyond the freedom trail and this is,
our favorite stories from boston history.
I’m sure new listeners who tuned in and are like, what’s with this guy?
Does he have some sort of like complex? Does he think he is the king like the royal we it’s been a tough adjustment. I still haven’t the language still hasn’t caught up with several years of doing this a solo show now.

Aaron:
[15:59] It’s nice. I like it because now and since I’ve known I’ve known that that’s how it started. You know, it’s kind of like back to the roots kind of thing. I think it’s nice. It’s nice. It’s sweet.

Jake:
[16:05] Yeah.

[16:09] Yeah. I’m sure even our guests sometimes because I’ll say like thanks for joining us here today.
Like uh okay us.

Aaron:
[16:15] Mhm. Okay.

Future Jake:
[16:19] Hey, this is future jake just chiming in to say that that was one of those artifacts of recording live that I was talking about. Sorry about the thump of me bumping the mic. I got excited for a minute.

Aaron:
[16:29] My my wife is well is and probably still is obsessed with paul revere and she, which I’m going to go after this. Go tell her that your wife is in charge of the old North Church and she’ll be wicked jealous for sure.

Jake:
[16:43] Paul revere is a, it’s just such an omnipresent figure in boston history.
He he lived a long time. He was present in a lot of stories from, you know, his famous ride from all the Suffolk resolves all the sort of pre revolutionary activities through,
the disastrous Penobscot expedition where he got court martialed for alleged cowardice.
He was found the charges were not sustained but where basically the entire U.
S. Fleet was destroyed in the worst naval defeat before Pearl Harbor to,
there’s a sort of a nascent historic site where they’re restoring in Canton mass where they’re restoring his boundary, where so much of his actual industrial work happened.
But he had an enormous factory in Canton where he made bells and cannons and all kinds of stuff.

Aaron:
[17:33] So we’re talking about things turning into episodes now. You mentioned the steno pad. It was a yellow or white.

Jake:
[17:38] Yeah, it was yellow.

Aaron:
[17:41] Nice. Good memory when you are looking for looking out for new topics, new episodes like you just did. It’s great that I just saw you do it.
When that happens, what happens next, when you get the idea, when you see something online or hear something, what’s next in that process?

Jake:
[17:58] The whole show runs out of google docs. I would be adrift without our friends at google.
I have a spreadsheet that I started in the summer of 2016 before the show was born, where we put those first, you know, I took those ideas from the steno pad and put them into a spreadsheet and I just kept adding to it ever since.
And it’s like have a column for just sort of like what the name of the idea is.
If there’s a specific date attached to the idea and then a column just for sources.
So when I have down time at work or a free evening and I’m bored with tv or whatever it might be, I’ll do a little online research. I’ll google whatever topic I’ll go, you know, I have a dozen or so really rich online archives. I’d like to consult.
So I’ll go in and just see are their sources behind the story I heard about.
And if there are, start dropping sources into the spreadsheet.
Yeah. I’m usually working a couple of weeks out now. It varies. Sometimes I’m right down to the wire.

[18:52] So when it’s time to decide on what that next topic is going to be, I’ll go into the spreadsheet, I’ll sort of look at that sources column and say, oh, there’s a lot here.
I could do an episode on that. There are enough sources there. And so I’ll go in and start reading through the sources trying to grab the interesting quotes.
One of those sources usually lead me to more and hopefully to to primary sources where I can get to the actual, you know, the words of the people involved.
And once I once I have those sources and I’ve started to do the reading, I’ve found the interesting interesting quotes that the process is almost always.
This is an interesting quote, paste that into my script document and paste a few quotes in there. And then it’s like well I need some context to bridge between these two quotes. And all of a sudden I’m writing without even realizing that I had started writing. I started writing that script.

[19:39] You know our goal our I c I did it again.
Um my goal oh tear my goal at this point is basically somewhere between between 10 and 20 pages.
Um makes up an episode and that that will usually average out to about an hour ish.
Um Give or take. I try not to go much more than an hour and a half, much less than a half an hour. But by landing that our ish range, I’m happy.
You know, that takes up almost. I I say I do the research on evenings when I’m not watching tv but that’s kind of a lie because I’m almost always trying to research or right,
something to do with this show because it just takes up every every minute of my waking time.
I have an interview with this author tomorrow I was up until like 1 30 last night trying to finish his book and take some notes and get some questions written out.
And then I got so close to the end and I realized I read the same paragraph like 10 times. I had nodded off at the end of it every time I was like, all right, well, we have to go to bed now.

Aaron:
[20:39] Yeah.

Jake:
[20:40] After we hang up here this evening, I’m gonna I’m gonna finish that book. There’s last 10 pages, last couple of questions and get ready for that interview tomorrow.

Aaron:
[20:47] I I said it, I said it when you were on pilgrim’s Progress, it’s great to fall asleep doing something you love.
I think that’s that’s something that if you’re feeling like if anybody’s feeling stuck somewhere, like something you love falsely doing it, you know.

Jake:
[21:00] It feels good to be productive. You know, even if all it is is a podcast.

Aaron:
[21:05] Just by listening to your process and all the work you put in by trade. I’m a history teacher, I have a Master’s degree, but not in teaching, I have it in history.
And to me, you’re halfway there. You’re halfway done with the Masters on your way to a PhD with that kind of work. For sure.

Future Jake:
[21:24] Hey, future jake here again. I probably should have pointed out that unlike Aaron, I don’t have a history degree.
I actually gave up on history class after about the 11th grade, but I rediscovered a love of history outside the classroom much later in life.

Aaron:
[21:41] Um, so there’s that part of the of the of the show, um, and you talked a little bit earlier about technical stuff.
How long did it take you to really feel comfortable with your voice with listening to yourself?
I love your cadence on the show. It keeps me involved, like audibly. I know it’s hard to explain, but um, the way that it’s all paste out, it makes a great picture in my head. How long did it take you to find your cadence in your voice?

Jake:
[22:09] When we started, we were still weekly. It’s a it’s a bi weekly semi weekly or whatever, every other week show, fortnightly show now.
Um but when we started out, it was a weekly show and if I look back it probably took 30 episodes or so to start finding our sea legs.
In terms of the material, We’ve actually re recorded a number of the very earliest episodes because they looking back, there was just not enough detail.
You know, we would cover things like the, the 1919 molasses flood in eight minutes.

[22:42] Um, Before Nikki left the show, we went back and sort of re research rewrote that and re released an episode. That was more, I think it was like 40 minutes, 45 minutes, which is a much more appropriate sort of overview of the molasses flood.
I want to say it took 30 ISH episodes to really find our stride in researching and writing and how much detail to put into the show in terms of my voice and like the pacing and how the show is delivered.
That probably took even longer. That was at least a year, maybe more at the time. It sounded good to me.
It’s only in retrospect from a perspective, six years on that I realized how wooden or forced or,
sometimes rushed, sometimes, you know, the pacing was always a little off the delivery was always a little, it’s hard, especially now that it’s a solo show.
It’s hard to just sit alone in a room and and talk and have it come out kind of naturally.
I know it’s not even so like, I know I have a little bit of a radio voice, it’s a little bit forced sounding part of the reason the show takes so much time pulling back the curtain a little bit, You know, I’ll write this script, it’ll be in an hour’s worth of material, a 15 page script, something like that.

[23:53] But my recording session for that might be three hours because,
I’m the sort of person, I’ll say the same sentence 10 times over until I get the inflection, just the way I wanted to be in,
that, that’s what is what, what took so much time a year, a couple of years was to be able to hear it in real time and know when something needed to be redone or when something sounded off when I needed to just stop and rewrite this paragraph to be a little more natural sounding.

Aaron:
[24:16] UH Yeah.

Jake:
[24:17] That that took a long time When I look back on the earliest shows, the first, you know, dozen 2050 shows.
Oh, that that needed five more takes to get that to come out right.
You know, there are things where I definitely know that it it didn’t sound right in retrospect, but at the time I thought it was great, probably in five more years.
If I’m still still doing the show in five more years, I’ll look back at something I did this week. And so, man, you should have done five more takes on that, that sounds terrible, jake.

Aaron:
[24:49] 250 episodes six years How have things Changed and if things did change, was it on purpose?

Jake:
[24:56] There have been a few things, a few natural evolutions and then some things that we deliberately changed the format of the show has changed a few times.
Well, for the first several years, I really, I felt like we needed to fill out the show.
Um, so we had additional segments for the first year we had this week in boston history.
So before we present the, the, the narrative for that week, whatever the story that week was, I would go through and for each day of the coming week, I would give like a factoid from that day in boston history.

[25:30] Which is great until, you know, you’re listening to an episode six months from now.
I hadn’t really internalized that idea of, you know, timeless content, Right?
And we’ve even, we’ve gotten some negative reviews on itunes because they’re on Apple podcasts because of that, because People would go back and listen to it a year after it was released and say, I’ve got to fast forward through the 1st 15 minutes of the show to get to your story like what’s going on here.

[25:54] So we, we did away with that after the first year. But I still, I just, I felt like our our narratives weren’t strong enough to stand on their own.
And honestly in those first year a couple of years, I was probably right, it probably wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own.
So we had for a while, eh remember the order of things happened?
We had a historic site of the week where we sort of highlight and do you know, a few minutes about historic site in the boston area that lasted maybe a year, maybe two years.
And then we had boston book club pick. So we’d have a book or some media, sometimes it was a movie or documentary, but usually a book about boston that would feature to a few minutes about that and upcoming events.
But again, once you start talking about upcoming events and that also isn’t timeless content. Right?
So in conjunction with Nikki officially leaving the show, me moving the show to every other week.
I also just simplified, we just, I just introduced the show and I do this week’s topic and that’s it now.
And part of the reason I’m comfortable with that is I feel like the research, the writing, the, the stories have gotten stronger so they can stand on their own.
They are, you know, a decent length of content. There a decent quality of content where the first year, a couple of years maybe they need a little help.

Aaron:
[27:16] My son was making a project for school and he kept drawing stuff and getting frustrated with it, and I was just telling him, and I think this is kind of what you’re getting.
A lot of art is just being able to trash pieces of whatever you’re doing just continuously, just like nope nope, throw it away and just growing in that way. And that’s what it sounds like. Uh that happened with you guys.

Jake:
[27:34] Yeah, A few times I’ve gotten deep and I’ve written 20 pages on the topic and realized it was crap and just trashed it.
Three times. I’ve tried to start an episode about the disestablishment of the congregational church in Massachusetts where,
Up until the 1820s I think it was, we had an official state religion in massachusetts and you know, talents had to had to financially support the congregational church.
And so I’ve tried three different times to write an episode about the end of that and how that came to be. And I’m just not smart enough.
You know when you, when you get a lot of material together and then you read it and you realize you’re nowhere with it.
That’s painful. But sometimes you just have to kill your babies.

Aaron:
[28:19] That’s good creativity, man. Speaking of Good Creativity, six Years, 250 episodes in 2020.
Don’t be modest. He told me the show one boston hub history wanna preservation award. What was that about? Well, who was that from? And why do you think you won that?

Jake:
[28:36] That was from the boston preservation alliance. They’re very focused on architecture and on obviously historic preservation.
Honestly, I I couldn’t tell you how, how we came to win that.
Usually the winners of the bus and preservation achievement awards are developers.
So not not the year that we won it, but the year that we could actually go in person to accept our award.
One of the winners was a former monastery in Brighton.

[29:07] That had been adaptive and I don’t know why it was no longer a monastery but it was adaptive lee reused into housing and offices and a few other things beautiful, beautiful space.
So that’s usually what wins a preservation achievement award.
But there have been a few times when books I think either 20, or 20, Joe Bagley.
The city archaeologist for Boston one for his book about the 50 oldest buildings in boston there, that’s at one point a blog about historic architecture one.
But in 2020 our podcast one which were not strictly focused on architecture or preservation but we’re obviously history based and we try to talk about place,
whenever we can to try and makes it relatable for the listener if they can picture themselves standing on a street in modern boston where something historic took place.
So we try to be very descriptive of places in boston that relates to buildings. We’ve had a few episodes specifically about the preservation movement.
Think of one in particular maybe three years ago about How old South Meeting House and the Old State House was saved right around the centennial in the 181876.
But that’s that’s that’s kind of like a one off. We don’t always talk about preservation. So I was very, very flattered to win that award.

Aaron:
[30:29] It’s great for them. Any of them. It’s great for the, for the, for the podcast community to like put that in the same rank books and architecture and archaeology. That’s great.

Jake:
[30:38] Yeah, it was great for my ego too.

Aaron:
[30:44] You’re the most humble man I’ve ever met.

Jake:
[30:45] Just because you haven’t met my wife.

Future Jake:
[30:52] Hey, listeners, another note from future jake. It hasn’t been announced yet, but it turns out that hub history is now actually a double award winning podcast.
Stay tuned for an exciting announcement on Twitter on June seven, or I’ll mention it in an upcoming podcast.

Aaron:
[31:11] Oh, man. So you got that award and you’re feeling good. And um, what do you think is in the future for boston hub history? I mean, we we got through Covid. Okay. And.

Jake:
[31:22] Well this May, I think this is the first episode that I’ve recorded. Post Covid actually got Covid right at the beginning of May.
Um so if listeners are not used to hearing me heave big breaths in between talking.
I’m very worried that I might have long Covid because I had a super mild case of Covid.
We got packed slow, vivid, really seemed to knock it out but I haven’t been able to catch my breath for a month. Now.

Aaron:
[31:48] Oh man. Well I hope that doesn’t put any damper on any plans. What what what is going going forward for for our history?

Jake:
[31:55] We’re right in the middle of a spate of interviews we’ve in the past few weeks, listeners will have heard rebels at sea with eric jay Dolin about private hearing in the american revolution and,
the week after this car, the next episode after this comes out will be with Seth Brueggemann.
Like we talked about the history of the freedom trail in boston National Historic Park.
Have some lines in on a new book about Kendall Square as sort of an innovation hub.
Hopefully going to have an interview with a new collection of cotton Mather’s writings. They had the editors of that looking forward to that hopefully will make that happen.
There’s also a new book coming out about the it’s called the Nazis of Copley Square.
It’s about the what’s called the christian Front, which we actually had coincidentally, right after the january 6th 2021 insurrection.

[32:51] I released an episode right after that that I had in development for a while about the Christian Fronts attempted coup in 1940 but there’s a I think he’s a B.
C. Professor, I want to say don’t don’t quote me on that, who’s written a book about them. The christian front and Their presence in Boston the late 30s and 40s so that hopefully will be coming up.
But then looking a little further forward, there are a couple of cool things coming up on the horizon a little further further out, probably late summer fall,
one of which hopefully we’ll be sort of a multi interview story about the Olmstead bicentennial.
So Frederick Law Olmsted, the great landscape architect who created Central Park in new york and landscapes all over America but was huge.

Aaron:
[33:37] Park and Whisker.

Jake:
[33:38] Okay. Yeah, they’re in Worcester and hugely influential here in boston with our emerald necklace parks, the incomplete and emerald necklace parks.

Aaron:
[33:45] Mhm.

Jake:
[33:46] I got contacted by some folks who had some good ideas about a pretty wide ranging ambitious show we could put together about that so that hopefully that will be coming together.
And then I got contacted by an independent researcher who has just a wealth of materials about the AIDS crisis in boston.
She had been a volunteer during those years at Fenway health which is just on the on the front lines of of AIDS treatment and support for the community and all that sort of thing.
But she she’s conducted oral histories and she has just a ton of material so hopefully we’ll be able to create something out of that for for later this fall if we can’t it’s only because of my own deficiencies.
The work that she’s done is really phenomenal.
So hopefully we can make something beautiful out of that. The material is amazing.
I will be the only one to blame if we can’t make something great out of that.

Aaron:
[34:40] Do you They both sound like it’s a change in mode for you.

Jake:
[34:44] Yeah, the closest thing I’ve done to that episode, I want to say it was episode 200 was,
again, like I mentioned earlier, sort of redid some of our very earliest episodes and,
one of those early episodes was about Rebecca Crumpler who was the first Black woman to be awarded a medical degree in the United States in 1864.
And so it was one of those situations where you know, it was very early in the podcast. Her story took up like 12 minutes. It was poorly sourced, poorly written and honestly poorly delivered.
So all around just a winning effort on my part.
But um in the summer of 2020 for episode 200, I redid that show I wove in audio from a celebration of her life that was held in the Fairview Cemetery here in Hyde Park,
some some folks in the High Park historical society and to the friends of the High Park library got together and raised money to Mark her and her husband Arthur’s graves in,
The Fairview cemetery for 150 years.
They have been in unmarked graves, which is not fitting of of the achievement that she had had in her lifetime.

Aaron:
[35:55] Oh, jeez!

Jake:
[36:00] So, but as part of that I recorded the different speakers, so that’s really the closest I’ve come to sort of that tapestry approach sort of the radio lab, this american life all the time, different speakers.
Usually it’s just me or it’s me and one interviewee, So hopefully what I learned from episode 200 will carry forward to these sort of richer episodes were planning fingers crossed.
Like I say, if we can’t pull it off, it’s not my partner’s fault at all. It’s just me.

Aaron:
[36:30] When did you start doing your Patreon stuff?
I didn’t really start hearing that in the episodes until I want to say like halfway through or so.

Jake:
[36:41] Yeah, that’s about right. I want to say it was maybe around the third year.

Aaron:
[36:45] And I’m listening to you man, You have the greatest Patreon pitch I’ve ever heard and I’ve heard a lot of them.
I mean when I do my I’m just like, I need, all I want is what I said, I only want to pay for the podcast hosting.
I’ve got a job, that’s all I got, but yours is great. It’s very explicit and like, tell me about how you got around to that and what do your patrons even get? I don’t even know.

Jake:
[37:07] The week I went to see hamiltonian in NYC, I released an episode about dueling in boston.

Aaron:
[37:14] I’ve listened that one. I love.

Jake:
[37:15] Okay, yeah, if you like outstanding incidents of, of dueling involving boston and Bostonians, I was really proud of it.
I was like trying to tag all these kind of prominent people like hey you should retweet me on this and and then I realized that I was, as I was trying to promote this, our, our website was down because somebody had gotten in and and,
done things to it, so I had to upgrade our, our security which.

Aaron:
[37:40] Things we can’t repeat.

Jake:
[37:42] Yeah, they just, yeah, they just redirected all the links to spam links basically. It was, it was awesome.

Aaron:
[37:50] You look very annoyed, telling me.

Jake:
[37:51] Yeah, well, so I’m like on my phone, like in a cab in new york trying to like undo these changes. It was, yeah, it was bad.
I had to start paying a little more. I have been doing everything myself, but basically securing the site, it turns out I’m not that good at,
so I had to start paying somebody for that and that made me sort of take stock and you know, the show is a hole between hosting, media, hosting for the podcast, web hosting for the companion website and then,
security was actually our biggest expense for a while and then there are little things like upgrading our mix or I, I really want this summer to change to a new hosting platform with better stats and things like that.
So there just came a point where I was, I realized that maybe I could ask somebody else to bear some of these costs.
Um so, so that’s, that’s basically, I think what you’re saying that the focus pitch, I just lay out here are the things that I pay for, I pay for web hosting and security.
I pay for podcast, media hosting, I paid, you know, they’re like three or four things I list and,
and then I try to acknowledge folks who have have given recently or talk about a project that’s coming up that’s going to take some funding just to sort of lay out what, what you’re actually supporting, if you, if you give to our Patreon, which patreon dot com slash shop history, check it out.

[39:13] But also I’ve been very mixed on how well I deliver on what I promised to our, our sponsors.
We have a few different benchmarks level. So I say, you know, $2 a month, $5 a month, $10 a month are sort of like the different levels.
So On paper, what you get for that is everybody gets a sticker and at $5 a month, the Perk is a monthly video chat with me or us.
And that’s why I have to say I’m very inconsistent and actually offering that.
So like every couple of months actually remember to do that and it’s even less often than our patrons actually take me up on that, but you totally have the opportunity to have a little zoom meeting with me and you know, we can talk about,
recent and upcoming shows and things like that,
and then our at our highest level there’s a walking tour as part of that with Covid.
We haven’t actually done that for the past two years probably as we’re coming out.
I mean I say we’re coming out of Covid, I just had Covid, but probably as we’re coming out of that, I don’t know that it will always be a walking tour but hopefully it’ll be something in person.
Maybe we’ll all get together and go to one of the boston like a freedom trail site together or something like that. Yeah.

Aaron:
[40:23] The Green Dragon Yeah.

Jake:
[40:26] Something as a group. Hopefully in person. As as the risk of that becomes a little less.

Aaron:
[40:32] You suggested another podcast me la brega And I got I got four or 5 deep and it’s really good.

Jake:
[40:36] Yeah.
Yeah. La brega is a really cool podcast about the history of Puerto Rico and the US and the relationship between the two.
And it’s it’s special because it’s a bilingual podcast.
So if you look at their feet, it’s you know, episode one English, episode one spanish, episode two. English, episode two spanish. So it runs through 100 ISH Years of Colonial History in Puerto Rico.

Aaron:
[41:04] What other podcasts have you been listening to since we’ve, since we talked or even then? Well, I’m trying to figure out when you actually listen to podcasts and you’re doing your own for so long every day.

Jake:
[41:16] Yeah, I mean I listen to podcasts whenever I’m doing anything else basically. So pre covid I was a big runner. I’m trying trying to get back to it.
It’s not going well. I’m trying to get back to to running. I was, you know, I ran marathons for for years officially retired from marathons, but like still run a good bit.
So if I’m mowing the lawn, washing the dishes out for a run in my car, I’m listening to podcasts, you know, any other time I’m not listening to a podcast, I’m working on the podcast, it works out.
I like to listen to a lot of history podcasts. Obviously I like local podcast to boston.
Obviously there’s a podcast that I love. It’s not a history podcast, but it is local, it’s called greater boston. So the creators are from boston.

Aaron:
[42:02] I just saw them on the Twitterverse. Yeah. No I haven’t listened to I I just found them on there. Have they been around for a while.

Jake:
[42:04] Oh yeah, it’s have you listened?

[42:10] Yeah, they they, what is this that we’re in right now, season four maybe. So they They released three seasons and they took a long hiatus And now they’re back with the 4th season.
But it’s it’s a fiction pocket. So it’s an audio audio drama.
Maybe it’s set in contemporary boston, but it’s a slightly tweaked, like slightly sci fi version of boston where,
things are never quite what they seem and the red line has voted to secede and set up its independent town of red line as time goes on it.
You know, the characters you get very invested in these characters and it becomes more and more sort of socially aware as time goes on.
So the the last couple of seasons are very focused on the history of redlining in boston and sort of housing crisis in boston, racial justice in boston, the Black Lives Matter movement is very good.

Aaron:
[43:07] On that right now, I’ve had a guy on a good friend, um, Mike CAgney, he does one about more like a fantasy horror type of things called boston Harbor Horror.

Jake:
[43:18] Huh? I have to check that out.

Aaron:
[43:19] And you really says three, he’s three seasons deep and I wanted to be on it. So bad.
So he let me be on like, let me voice a one on like an extra episode or something.
So it reminds me a lot of that because he, he references a lot of the same places in the area and I bet you, he knows them. You know what I’m saying? Uh, we all stick together like that. But greater boston, Let me look that up right now. What else do you listen to?

Jake:
[43:46] So locally, I’m pretty sure it’s accurate to say that hub history was the first boston history podcast, which I’m proud of, but there have been a lot since then,
Guy, no particular order the paul revere House as a show called Revere House Radio where they delve into objects or events or anything like that relating to the paul, Revere House W.
Bur and the Globe did a series on the Isabella Stewart Gardner heist called Last Seen, which is just really phenomenal, really featured Anthony and more.
The current head of security at the, the Isabella Stewart Gardner House who shout out hello Anthony.
I know you’re a listener, he’s reached out to us a few times. We did an episode a while back about a heist at the Harvard fogg Museum, the fogg art Museum at Harvard.
And he’s a serious student of art heists in New England because he’s trying to prevent them.
So he reached out to me after that episode to say that we had, we had done it justice. So that was nice.

[44:50] There’s the channel story, boston venue, which is about this iconic 19 eighties rock club in boston.
The Channel, They talk about the music scene, they bring in different musical guests to talk and sometimes perform everybody from Dicky Barrett of the boss stones too,
reggae stars, metal bands and they talk about how the venue was eventually basically driven out of existence by the boston mob.
So that’s a very interesting story and some of the founders of the club are the sort of the main presenters, another one of these sort of limited series.
Um the first season of People’s history was all about the Columbia Point housing projects of Columbia Point public housing and using that as a lens through which to see,
boston’s struggles with Housing costs, going back to the 1950s, busses, racial justice movement starting in the 50s and 60s and taking the whole story up through the 80s, the 90s, the turn of the century. Really well done.
There’s old dirty boston, the mass historical Society just started to show their up to maybe eight or 10 episodes called The Object of History,
and their episode about the 54th massachusetts Volunteer Regiment, the first black Regiment, the subject of the movie glory.
I was out, I don’t remember what I was doing, but I was just walking down the street balling um from the way they had had presented the risks.

Aaron:
[46:13] Yes Yeah.

Jake:
[46:20] The cost, the consequences of war were so much higher.
For the men who volunteered for the 54th,
They wouldn’t be sent to pow camps in Andersonville was horrible.
But the men of the 54th wouldn’t be sent there. They would either be immediately murdered or enslaved and just you know, thinking about the decisions that they made and the sheer guts.
It took two to look that in the face and still sign your name so that the object of history has been really phenomenal.
There’s old dirty boston. There’s crime in the truest kind which is a true crime obviously from the title show but very focused on boston. The boston area.
We were the first but there are so many great shows focused on history here in boston.
Now I have this dream of starting some sort of like.

[47:10] I don’t know a convention or something of local history podcasts from all over the country because there dozens and dozens and dozens of them now every city says some sort of great history podcast.
You know I listened regularly. I listened to East Bay yesterday about the bay area in san Francisco usually about Oakland in the surrounding area. I listened to the hidden history of L. A. I listened to mainly history M. A. I.
N. E. L. Y. Mainly history about the history of Maine bowery boys from in N. Y. C.
They don’t create new episodes that often but when they do the Bishop Museum in Hawaii has a great podcast.
But then there are just dozens and dozens of awesome history podcast from around the country.
I don’t listen to that many more than than that. But I’m trying, I’m trying to work more into my rotation and I just love that, you know, the people who love a community, a city, a region who go deep on it.
Yeah, I love it. So I would love to bring those voices together in some way in the future. But.

Aaron:
[48:14] Yeah, there’s a, there’s a convention or a network something somewhere.

Jake:
[48:17] Yeah. Yeah. It’s like back in the early days of of blogs and sort of early days of the web.
Like do you remember the web ring where you don’t like people have the same topic?
You know, like link your sites to one another. I feel like there’s something to be done for that for, for local history.

Aaron:
[48:29] Right? No, for sure. Wow. We covered a lot today. Huh?
I guess. Well, I told you I had a couple in my pocket that I wanted to throw out to you and see you get your thoughts on it. I did put this in the notes though, but when I first started listening to podcasts, I was really into low, remember Lore?

Jake:
[48:47] Yeah. Aaron. He was also an Aaron. Right? Ah, I was gonna say mickey, but that’s Mink, Mink Inn. Okay.

Aaron:
[48:50] Yes. Erin, not Sorkin. That’s the writer Mencken. Mencken. Yeah.

Future Jake:
[48:57] Hey, I think this is the final correction from future, jake listeners just dropping in one last time to say that the host of Lore is Aaron Monkey. That’s m a h n k e. Sorry, Aaron!

Aaron:
[49:13] Well, he’s turned into a show. If yours turned into a show, what would that be like?

Jake:
[49:15] Yeah.

Aaron:
[49:18] What episodes you think would work best? I just thought of that question. Yeah.

Jake:
[49:23] Oh man, put me on the spot. AH one episodes would work best as.

Aaron:
[49:27] Like my, like my favorites. The train, the train crash one. I think that would be a great. That would be great. TV.

Jake:
[49:30] The Bussey bridge, right? You can maybe animate the crash itself. There are some photos of the aftermath. You could, you could put that together.
There’s an episode, I actually just did it as a rerun recently which has it in my head that they’re there to related about guns in boston shootings in the boston area.
So one is about the Mylan brothers, It was the 19 30s, don’t quote me on exactly what you’re in the 1930s.
They stole a state police to Megan and basically when it they went on a crime spree, they started out in Needham. So sleepy Needham is like a boston suburb.

Aaron:
[50:05] It’s not Over.

Jake:
[50:12] You know the first police officer killed in the line of duty, there was killed with a stolen Tommy gun.
They were stolen from the mass state police. So it’s this crazy story about this, this,
there’s these two brothers and then one of the brothers fiance and then another friend of theirs who formed like a gang basically they are robbing banks there killing people.
Then they go on the run there eventually captured in Washington D.
C. I think maybe Nyc like the investigation took him to both cities but it’s just this crazy story and there are lots of photos, lots of visual material from their trial in denim district court,
an accomplice of theirs broken to prison and Datum to try to break them out and ended up like shooting a shotgun in the prison and crazy.
I mean it was a crazy story, the two brothers and the other accomplice all ended up getting executed in the electric chair at Charlestown.
And then the, the fiance was rehabilitated and went on to just like a quiet Housewife’s life in the 1940s.

[51:23] The story plays into the, there, there’s an ongoing debate about gun control at the time in the 1930s that ended up culminating in the law that makes it illegal for you and me to own machine guns.
So it’s just, you know, it’s a very weird interplay of crime and legislation and just these, these odd things that people did.
So there’s, and then similarly in, I think it was 1989, there’s a tragic and very weird story that also plays into guns and gun control.
A man on the north shore was separated from his wife.

[52:03] Went a little off the deep end, maybe just slightly Bought himself an AK 47 and stole himself a Cessna a little single engine plane from the Beverly airport.
He just walked up with ak 47 to like a mechanic and was like, hey, I’m, I’m taking that plane, fuel, fuel it up and get it started, Goes on to spend something like the next 12 hours strafing the city of Boston out the window is playing with his AK 47.
Uh, so he’s a postal in place. There is the first known example of a somebody going postal from the sky.
So he spends a lot of time shooting up the south boston postal annex that’s near South Station shoots up the control tower and some hangers at Logan airport tries to shoot at people coming out of a sox game.
Somebody’s walking down Newbury Street and they’re like, what’s this hitting my head? And it’s like the shell casings from where he’s like firing the Ak 47 down the street.
Eventually he runs out of gas so he has to land. He was arrested, he goes to jail where he still remains. I think he’s in Concord EMC EMC I conquered right now.

Aaron:
[53:08] Do you think You Would want to be on a podcast about New England?

Jake:
[53:13] Get that interview. See what you can do. I can give you the DEETs. But that also landed right around the same time as George H. W. Bush was trying to get a limited assault rifle ban passed.

[53:25] I think in 1990 the bill passed and there was the 1994 assault rifle ban that was a little more stringent under clinton.
And so it’s similar to the miller brothers who are right in the 19 thirties banning of guns like the Tommy gun.
This crime also falls like right within the 1980s, 90s debate about assault rifles.
Yeah. And that one, there is footage. I think it was NBC had a cameraman at the at the south boston post atlantic’s who got some, some shots of this plane swooping by and you see the muzzle flash out the window and there are so many more.
I mean, I love one of my favorite episodes of ours is the story of The first aquarium in Boston where the first captive whale in the world was exhibited starting in the 1860s.

[54:16] Which is hard to imagine. But there there’s a lot of primary source material behind that, including what was her name?
Sally or Sarah cool Putnam.
I think Sally gold Putnam who went on as an adult to be pretty well regarded painter.
But as a kid, I think she was like 10 or 12 years old.
She visited the aquarium where the whale was kept and she drew sketches of it and that she drew sketches of the woman being pulled in the little boat behind the whale, which was kind of like the main attraction at the aquarium.
They harnessed the whale and she stood the a woman stood in a little boat and the whale would swim around the little tank, pulling the woman in the boat behind her, which would probably not fly in an aquarium today.
It’s probably not recommended with these very, very intelligent animals.

[55:04] But that, I mean there’s this guy James Ambrose cutting, who developed a new photographic process. You’ve heard of daguerreotypes.
He developed the Ambro type as James Ambrose cutting Ambro type, which was an improvement over the daguerreotype.
He got rich from it and then he just, he was like, I want to have aquariums.
And so he developed one of the earliest aquariums in the world, definitely the first aquarium in boston.
It was a time before people could really successfully keep fish at home or anything like that.
He developed a lot of the technology and techniques was able to to hire somebody to captivate a whale by,
basically beluga whale driving it into the shallows along the ST Lawrence River as the tide went out basically like a fish were like the early residents of boston would have used,
trapping it in there and then he brought it back on a train to boston kept it alive for at least a few years.
And then in the end p t Barnum of Barnum and bailey’s and everything else you’ve heard of in the 19th and early 20th century basically swindled him out of the business, took the whole thing away and then P.

Aaron:
[56:01] Wow.

Jake:
[56:12] T. Barnum couldn’t keep a whale alive for more than about a week at a time.

Aaron:
[56:16] Oh man. Yeah that’ll be great.
Tv have you seen and I think you could do it but which like area of not necessarily episode but what area of history boston history could you actually get on drunk history and perform,
and finish it for them? Which one do you think you could do?

Jake:
[56:37] Maybe maybe ah sort of the second half of the 19th century post civil war just the rapid growth and industrialization and.

[56:50] Annexation and landfill and like just all the different balls that were in motion at that time.
We talked about how fast paced life is today. But For people who are alive in Boston between like 1855 and 1905 we ain’t got nothing on them.
You went into the 1850s as this like tiny Shawmut Peninsula really isolated from the mainland.
The economy was very focused on shipping and sort of the mercantile economy and then,
between the rise of irish immigration immigration in general, the annexation of all the surrounding towns, the filling of the back bay, the um south boston mudflats, the Bulfinch triangle.
The coming of the railroads to boston to create our own. You know we didn’t have the Hudson valley and then the Erie canal to tie us together with the rest of the country and to keep us relevant as support. We had to build those connections and the railroads. Absolutely.
So all those things come together in the second half of the 19th century.
And you know by the, by the close of the century boston is connected to the country, by telephone, by telegraph, by railroad were doing x rays in our hospitals, were using anesthesia and surgery.
So somebody who was born in like 1840 would have been living basically in paul revere’s boston and then they would have died in our boston.
That period of transformation is just amazing.

Aaron:
[58:20] And you could talk about it.

Jake:
[58:20] Probably. Yeah that that that that used to be my, my forte. When when we had the walking tour company, I would talk about the back bay and I talk a lot about 19th century change in Boston.
The other area where maybe I could hold my own would be sort of the immediate post revolutionary period.
And just because that was also a period of change and growth and Development in Boston. But know that the sort of the late 19th century is probably my go to.

Aaron:
[58:47] Yeah, that’s when stuff stuff really starts picking up. Well jake, that’s all I got for you tonight.
It’s been a long time. It’s been a great time for sure.

Jake:
[58:54] It’s true. Before I let you go, you have to tell our listeners a little bit about your show, pilgrims digress because we first met when I was a guest on your show and that’s that’s what inspired me to have.

Aaron:
[59:05] Mm

Jake:
[59:06] You come on and turn the tables on me here today. So so tell us a little bit about pilgrim’s progress.

Aaron:
[59:12] So my show is anything new England.
It used to be people from New England snap, but I talk about things about New England people from New England. So I’ve done everything from music to beer to self help.

[59:30] To hip hop. The teachers, wacky news.
I regularly have a sports guy on and we talk, I mentioned Mike cagney of boston Harbor horror, had a guy from Newport’s.
So I, although I am a history teacher, um, the podcast is more an opportunity for me to talk about it because I’m a transplant and I love it here and I try to find as much stuff and people as I can from New England to get,
to get that pride going, get that local listening, ah, pride going.
So that’s why that’s what jeremy due to your podcast and to all the other ones that you mentioned as well. So if your listeners are interested in some up to date and current conversations with people who love what they’re doing, an organist.
I’ve got Jeff Belanger from, from New England Legends.
Ah, he was really cool distillery’s my third.
I’m sorry, the end of my second season, I got a little political talk to the DSA looser and, but it’s just me talking to people. It’s an excuse for me to meet new people.

Jake:
[1:00:35] I have to say I really admire the way you do interviews, interviews for me are always super stressful and granted most of minor author interviews and I’m always like cramming to read the book and trying to think of smart questions for him and things like that.

Aaron:
[1:00:35] Really and.

[1:00:46] Oh yeah, you got to know it.

Jake:
[1:00:47] But I get so stressed out by interviews and your sound very natural and I always learn something.

Aaron:
[1:00:53] If your listeners are into that, then come on over to pilgrims digress dot com.
I’ve got all my socials there and uh, looking forward to hearing from you guys and talking with all everybody about our local New England and boston area. Stiff.

Jake:
[1:01:09] Well. I will make sure to link to pilgrims digress dot com and the show notes this week at hub history dot com slash 250 Aaron. I can’t thank you enough for doing this with me here today.

Aaron:
[1:01:19] 2 50.

Jake:
[1:01:23] I know it was a lot of prep and and getting things together and, and listeners won’t hear that, but we had a few tech glitches at the beginning, so I appreciate your patience and pulling this whole thing together.

Aaron:
[1:01:32] Yeah. What a great time. We’ll have to connect again in the future. For sure.

Future Jake:
[1:01:40] This is future jake one last time. I hope you enjoyed stepping out of our normal podcast style just for one episode.
I promise I won’t do it too often.
Make sure you check out pilgrims digress. Aaron’s a great interviewer about all things new England.
So subscribe to his show on your favorite podcast app or go to pilgrims digress dot com to see all the ways to get in touch with him.
That link will be in the show notes this week at hub history dot com slash 250.
If you’d like to get in touch with me, you can email podcast at hub history dot com.
We’re hub history on twitter, facebook and instagram or you can go to hub history dot com and click on the contact us link while you’re on the site, hit the subscribe link and be sure that you never miss an episode.
If you subscribe on apple podcasts, please consider writing us a brief review. If you do jump me a line and I’ll send you a hub history sticker as a token of appreciation.

Music

Future Jake:
[1:02:41] That’s all for now. Stay safe out there listeners.