Boston’s Long Wharf: A Path to the Sea, with Professor Kelly Kilcrease (episode 245)

Transcript

Music

Jake:
[0:05] Welcome to hub history where we go far beyond the freedom trail to share our favorite stories from the history of boston, the hub of the universe.
This is episode 2 45 Boston’s long wharf, a path to the sea.
Hi, I’m jake in just a few minutes. I’m going to be joined by dr Kelly Kilcrease A Professor at UNH Manchester and the author of a recent book about the history of Long Wharf.
Today, Long Wharf is easily missed along boston’s waterfront, but that’s because the rest of the city has grown up around what was once considered one of the great wonders of the modern world.
From the beginning of the 18th century until the early 20th century, Long Wharf was the grand front entrance to our city, welcoming visitors, sea captains, immigrants and even enslaved Africans.
Professor Kilcrease will tell us why the grand pier was built, how the proprietors funded it and how it’s changed over the past 300 years.

[1:06] But before I sit down with Kelly Kilcrease I just want to pause and say thank you to everyone who supports hub history on patreon.
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I would never get the opportunity to do stuff like this without this podcast and I wouldn’t be able to make the podcast without a little help from my sponsors.
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[2:14] I’m joined now by Professor kelly. Kilcrease dr Kilcrease is an Associate professor of business at UNH Manchester with a focus on the history of business and small business developed.
His previous book is a history of shoe manufacturing in Manchester and has authored a number of articles about boston and New England history.
He’s here today to talk about his new book, Boston’s Long Wharf. A Path to the sea. Professor Kilcrease Welcome to the show.
Before we really get started. Can you just help get our listeners oriented?
If one of our listeners was walking down State Street, they have the old State house at their backs, they’re heading toward the Marriott Long Wharf.
How much of what they’re seeing in front of them. Looking down State Street would have been Long Wharf in its heyday.

Kelly:
[3:02] Obviously um you know if you’re walking down State Street, uh you would certainly have noticed that long wharf is not long.
So basically if you go to on State Street, if you get to India Street and you stop in India Street and you look down, you can say, well this is where Longworth started.

Jake:
[3:24] Is India Street. Is that the corner where the customs houses.

Kelly:
[3:28] Correct. So the Customs House will be right in front to the back of the Customs House.
So you would see the Customs House in front of you, but it’s probably another 20 yards, 30 yards behind the Customs House.
So um if you if you took out measuring tape and you measured it from there to there, it is approximately a half mile long.
Um So you know, to think about someone actually built um a wharf that’s a half a mile long During the early 1700s. It’s pretty amazing feat.
So yeah, yeah that’s the that’s the length.

Jake:
[4:03] You know, it’s hard to picture a half mile wharf coming from that spot because the rest of boston is so transformed around where long wharf was.
So can you also just give our listeners a picture of what the area known as Bendel’s Kovar, the great cove before any landfill?
Any warping out. What was the geography of that area like originally?

Kelly:
[4:23] Again, if you’re, if you’re looking around the mid 1616 forties, you would have had Bendel’s cove and to the left of that would have been forced hill and to the right of that would have been the mille fille mill hill. Excuse me.
So the population was again just from Bendel’s cove.
Um and and and moving inland, you know, I’m going to say in city terms today, three or four blocks, you know, they’re, they’re simply put there there, there wasn’t much there.
And so as we, as we look at the cove in and of itself, um again, there’s really only a few, what we call quote unquote peers.
Uh and and and not much more.
Uh so, you know, boston is really trying to find its uh its, its, its feet, so to speak as a uh, you know, as an economy relative to the ocean.
And so, you know, the town doc, the town cove, that’s the town doc was really, really a central, one of the first central locations because that was really the main dock that vessels would go to and fro.
But for the most part, you know, you’re, you’re talking about a small, I won’t even say town, almost a small community putting it, you know, going in place.

Jake:
[5:41] And I noted you you sort of drew a benchmark in the 1640s. Is that because of, there’s a lot I mentioned in the book, the 1641 riparian law, which I hadn’t heard of before reading the book. What did that do to sort of set the transformation of Boston in motion?

Kelly:
[5:56] This was basically a law that gave property only people who only property on the shore line itself.
It basically gave them the right to control that shore line up to, I believe, I have to kind of recollect, but I think it’s around 1600 ft 1650 ft give or take from the high tide line.
So essentially what what they were doing is setting it up. So if you own that prop that shore line you did have the right to go ahead and make a appear or a wharf.
And so that was really the meaning behind it. But you could not go past The 1600 ft.
So that was you know, and obviously long Wharf went well past that.
And so as I wrote it in the book technically Long Wharf was created by breaking the law. But you know the merchants had the money and the power so they were able to you know to get to get around that.
So yeah that’s really what the law was in place for to give the give those people who owned this property on the shore line the right to actually make um a war for appear.

Jake:
[7:04] So that sets this period of dwarfing out or transformation along the waterfront and motion.
And before the long Wharf, one of the biggest projects is the barrel Kado, which I’ve only barely been aware. I’ve seen it on old maps. I’m browsing at the Leventhal Map Center, but I’ve only barely been aware of what it was. So what was it?

Kelly:
[7:21] Yeah. You know, I would say out of all the research I did, I found this to be the most fascinating.
I had heard of it uh and I had seen the photos, but I haven’t really heard the story behind it, you know, other than the drawings and so forth.

[7:34] So essentially this was going to be a kind of a war fish like structure, but its intention was to set up the defense for the town of boston.
So you know, ships just couldn’t come flying in out of nowhere.
Um and this was going to slow it down. So basically this is a horizontal line, it’s circular, but in essence a horizontal line that went from one end of the cove to the other end.
And so within that horizontal line there were gonna be gaps.
Now the line itself was going to be basically fill.
So what, what, what this area had at the time was a lot we called mudflats.
And so mudflats as the name is applying its mud. So when the tide goes out, you can basically walk out, you know, well out into the, into the harbor, into the cove.
So again, the idea was, well let’s build something on the mudflats that will protect us.
What was created was a structure that was basically stones, bricks, dicks, weeds, anything that you could pack up and and create a structure that’s how it was being created.
So you’re not talking about, you know, something that was going to be lasting for very long to begin with.

[8:53] It was going to be more of just this. Um uh, this structure that was going to prevent people from coming in and out of the, of the harbor.

[9:01] Now, this was not going to work for very long though. So the town fathers basically said, well we need people to invest in this, create something that’s even better.
And sure enough, you know, again, some of the merchants did come together and they said, well we’ll help doing so and we’ll help doing this. And they took ownership of the Mercato.
Um and that was kind of the behind the behind the scenes was was that the thought was that these merchants would use the barrel Kado as a landing spot for goods and trade.
Um and so they would make out the town to get protection and everybody would be happy. So that was the initial thought behind it.
Um and the creation behind it, and as I said, it’s diagonal, excuse me, it’s horizontal, but it’s not a fully connected horizontal line, there are gaps in it because you do have to have gaps so you can allow vessels to come in and out.

Jake:
[9:56] But at least the hostile or potentially hostile french and dutch that are nearby and much larger settlements at the time couldn’t just come sailing in and drop off troops at the foot of the street.

Kelly:
[10:06] And I should also put, you know, that viewpoint of, you know, vessels from holland vessels from France coming in was completely erroneous, it was overkill.
It was still the idea that it could happen, they wanted that protection.

Jake:
[10:19] And then after a few decades, I guess the barricade oh, starts to fall apart.

Kelly:
[10:24] Correct? So, and it falls apart because the proprietors did not do a do a thing.
They said they were going to do all these things and they didn’t do anything. And so what happens is is that the vessels heading out of the cove and going towards the ocean, they would stop at the barrack Kado and pick up the stones from the barrel Kado and use it for ballast.
And so slowly but surely the Mercado starts to erode from all of these vessels, taking these stones.
And again, just to kind of show you how slapdash everything was.
One part of the barrack Otto was a ship that had sunk and they took the whole of the ship and they just threw it on top of the barrel Kado.
Um you know, as a, as a kind of a piece of it, so to speak to say, well, the structure is fine, but but again, it’s just really, you know, in today’s terms it’s duct tape and glue and it just, it wasn’t going to last very long in that respect.

Jake:
[11:15] I had no idea how much ballast transformed boston.
I had an interview a few weeks ago, I guess a couple months ago on the podcast.
Now with Pablo shim cuba, who wrote a kind of an industrial history of the boston harbor Islands and,
so many of the harbor islands were very transformed by ships heading out in ballast and taking away stones from Deer Island from Nix’s mate from Georgia’s island,
with the barrack Otto being picked clean by outgoing ships and not really being maintained by the proprietors who said they would there, it seems like there gets to be this need of, well, where will we have the ships land?
So who first proposes the idea of a wharf to go out through the line of the Pere Kado?

Kelly:
[11:59] Yeah, I think the backdrop on all of this is that if the barrack Otto didn’t exist more than likely long wharf wouldn’t exist.
And certainly later on as we may discuss, T wharf would not have existed because it was a piece of the Mercato. So, um, it does have an importance in that regard.
But the local government certainly saw that there was a problem here in terms of the structure itself,
and you know, they brought everybody in the grand court, so to speak, brought everybody in and the Selectmen brought everybody into our investors and said, listen, you’ve got to do something.
Um, and you got three years to get it done and three years come and go and they said, listen, we, it’s too late. We can’t, you know, the priorities, we can’t, we can’t do anything.
So entering is this individual by the name of Henry Deering.
Um he’s a wealthy boston landowner,
but he’s someone who’s very connected and really wants to make sure that boston succeeds and he knows the only they’re going to succeed is that they do become an economic entity um, you know, at the same time.

[12:59] So he comes up with the idea that as an extension of King Street, which today’s State Street is that there would be this wharf that was created,
and it would go well out into the cove past the line where the Mercado is now.
And so his thinking is if we have a really good wharf along wharf and it is operating economically, the Mercado would be resuscitated and it too would become part of the economic structure.
And so he’s during is the one that is really credited for creating it.
But again, a few years passed, nothing gets done.
Um, and now the Selectmen of boston, they’re really putting the pressure and something’s got to be done.
And so it’s Oliver knows who comes in, who is a physician very similar to during very, you know, connected to the community,
but he’s also a wealthy merchant at the same time and he’s the one that really takes Deering’s idea and puts it into motion relative to creating the wharf itself.

Jake:
[14:06] There’s a group that will become the proprietors of the Long Wharf, but there’s also sort of the rest of the merchant class of boston, it seems on the face of it.
It seems like if Oliver knows and a select group are going to be investing in this wharf, that the rest of the merchants would compete or have some alternate plan. But it really sounds like a lot of the merchants were behind this plan. Why would that have been?

Kelly:
[14:29] We can look at this from a philosophical standpoint and look at it from Deering’s perspective, I really want to help my community. I really want to make it a, you know, a positive economic force that will allow us to survive.
But uh, for these individuals who are the merchants who ultimately pay for, put this thing together and and and use it.
They are creating long war for one reason and one reason only they want to get more rich end of story.
So yeah, there could be a, obviously there’s a little bit we want to help the community, but the merchants in and of themselves, they are all very the ones who are very successful.
They’re a tight knit group. They all know each other by first name. There is no stranger.
They are almost in and of themselves a consortium. Uh, you know, a a corporation without being a corporation if you will.
And so it was very easy for them to get together and say, boy, this idea by knows we we can make some money here.
Ah and we can do extremely well for ourselves. So again, um, you know, in terms of why they’re doing it, the bottom line is these individuals, the primary reason for their investiture is because profit was in play.

Jake:
[15:43] Obviously, the economics of Long Wharf change time and time again over the centuries. But the original group, the original proprietors.
It obviously would have been a huge investment. So where were they envisioning? Or how are they envisioning that they would make that investment back? Where would the profit come from?

Kelly:
[15:59] I would say, and I didn’t have evidence of this, but I would certainly say their biggest profit.
It’s going to be individually there. They all own vessels.
So they were going to make money just in terms of the trade would be able to increase much more because of long wharf, they would be able to dock more vessels, they would be able to send out more goods, They will be able to receive more goods. So there was an individual part of it.
But then there were other things, other people who would want to use it, who had, you know, nothing to do with the proprietors obviously could. And so this could come in in terms of docking, war footage fees.
Um, other fees are associated with if someone wanted to rent. And of course, we have talked about, but they’re obviously, we’re going to be warehouses on the wharf.
So, you know, if you wanted to rent the warehouse, you could, if you wanted to sell the goods that you got in in your own warehouse, you could,
so, you know, you were basically, these proprietors had a chance to be the supplier and the retailer all at once.
So again, they had many arms of income coming in, um due to this investment.

Jake:
[17:04] It’s funny for a reader like me that a lot of the names and I look at the list of original proprietors.
The names are familiar, but they’re all a generation older than some of the figures I’m really familiar with. So it’s not Governor, Lieutenant Governor Andrew Oliver, it’s his uncle Nathaniel, it’s not Faneuil Hall namesake. Peter Faneuil, it’s his Uncle Andrew.

Kelly:
[17:24] Uncle. Yeah.

Jake:
[17:26] Can you just introduce the listener to some of the men who become this group of proprietors or owners of the boston morph?

Kelly:
[17:32] If we want to look at this through the lens of today, you know, you would see these individuals as being what we would call, you know, the captains of industry.
These would be these individuals who would be well known, you know, they could be walking down the road and, you know, they’re so and so they would they were very recognizable from that standpoint because of their success.
So very successful. So one of the first individuals, I would probably point out would be Jonathan Belcher Ah and he’s probably one of the more famous ones.
And I kind of highlight him a little bit more in depth with in the book itself, because he does become the governor of New Jersey and again, very influential.
But but again, he is a proprietor for about just, I can’t remember, but probably about 10 to 12 years somewhere in that range, maybe a little bit longer.
And again, he comes from a long listing of merchants.
Uh they have not only a ship, but they have a fleet of ships in terms of, you know, their their background and invest a heavy degree and copper mines.
So, again, someone who is um well connected and you know, this would have been just an easy idea to make this type of investment based upon his background, john garish um wealthy landowner.
Again, someone who has um, who has a background uh in the shipping industry as well, that’s probably the common.

[18:56] Aspect with all of these is that these individuals have this background in the, in the shipping industry.

Jake:
[19:03] One other thing they all seem to have in common is you’re pointing out their wealth.
And I was interested to read in the book that the average estate in Boston at that time was £68.
So the average value of household, How did that compare to the level of wealth of this group of proprietors?

Kelly:
[19:16] Right?

[19:22] So from my research, um I would have said that, you know, on average, the value of the estate, which I was able to get Hovered around 4000 to £6,000.
Uh so it was a significant difference. I think the one that John Garish was probably one of the more wealthy again with Belcher was one of the more wealthy merchants,
and he had an estate valued at around £4,500.
So yeah, there, you know, these these individuals were tremendously wealthy for that time period.

Jake:
[19:57] So these uber, wealthy landowners and shipping magnates and captains of industry, as you put it, they’re obviously not going to be doing the physical labor of building a dock.
So can you talk a little bit about the method of constructing the wharf and then who was performing the labor and overseeing the labor?

Kelly:
[20:18] You’re right there there, you know, you could not have looked in the newspaper and say, oh, I need to find, you know, someone who can make a wharf, there was no quote unquote wharf makers.
So most of the individuals who were responsible for the wharf, uh, you know, they were basically good with building vessels.
Uh, they were good in building furniture, so, you know, they’re, but they’re obviously for them to put that,
you know, that type of work in place, there would have had to have been some form of, of planning taking place.
And so at the time there was a couple of different ways that you could construct a wharf,
but the, the way that, um, long wharf was initially developed was what’s called crib constructions and, and just as the names implying a crib is, and I’ll give it to you,
you know, maybe in two by four language, but, you know, essentially you could have,
42 by fours and then you would have two by fours going across those two by fours,
like two or three of them and then you would fill that up with dirt rocks and so forth, and then you put another crib on top of that and you would fill that up,
and so you essentially, it’s kind of like a lego, you would essentially be putting one on top of the other, but it has to have Phil, um, you know, for it to maintain itself and to be stable.

Jake:
[21:43] Crib more like a corn crib rather than a child’s crib.

Kelly:
[21:46] Yes, correct. So it would be more like a corn crib and again, as I said, you would just simply,
uh fill that all up and keep moving outward, and as I was mentioning earlier, you know, there was a lot of mud flats, so in this area,
so again, which was a good thing, um so, you know, the crib would be stable from that standpoint and that would help,
you know, that would help tremendously.
So, so again, yeah, it was, it was really kind of piecemeal, but,
and then once you’ve got that structure done, then you would have a top layer structure which would be gravel and dirt um and more wood and so, you know, slowly but surely, but but if you can imagine this is, this is weighing,
you know, thousands and thousands of pounds, so it wasn’t going anywhere, but but again, it was a very um,
uh you know, very long process in that respect.

Jake:
[22:39] So how long did it take? The construction began in 1711 if I read correctly, when was the pier actually completed?

Kelly:
[22:46] Technically speaking, it was never completed because,
they’re always doing something, I was going, my goodness, I’m looking through the research, it’s like,
no, we gotta do another pylon here, we’ve got to do another board and it’s just like, my gosh, you know, just so but yeah, you know, for the, for the most part, yeah, you’re looking at 17 11,
Um but you’re looking at about 16-24 months timeframe,
so, you know, again, and I didn’t get any really information as far as um you know, did they work through the winter as an example and so forth,
but, and nor did I get how many people were working, but I would say within that timeframe, you know, they,
certainly were very productive and and the other thing too, as I mentioned in the book, which is interesting due to the great fire of that time,
all of the embers and all of the, you know, the, what was left from boston being almost burnt to the ground, they all use that for fill in the crib,
so that really did um you know, unfortunately that did accelerate the process at the same time.

Jake:
[23:53] I guess that’s helpful, very helpful Fire.

Kelly:
[23:56] Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, and you know, it was, I don’t know who came up with the idea, but you know, it was jesus, we’ve got this wood that’s partially burnt, let’s chop it up and use it for Phil and that, that was the idea.

Jake:
[24:11] As the initial construction winds down and Long Wharf takes shape, it’s about 22,000 ft from the original foot of King Street up to what’s now the end of the pier.
Do you have a sense of how that would have compared to the wharves and other major american cities, or what Councils in a major American city in 1711?

Kelly:
[24:30] Right. Yeah. So at that time period and, and, and again, just the quick study, Manhattan island had a couple of wars, but you know, you could literally throw a rock from one end to the other.
Uh, and there was like two or three in that regard.
Um, charleston, which was, you know, obviously a pretty big trade uh, area at that time for tobacco.
Uh, that to the problem with charleston had was that they were so far inland that, you know, they really couldn’t have much, but that too was uh, one or two or nothing there.
Uh, philadelphia also a big problem with Philly of course at that time was the,
fact that they’re, they’re actually on a river, not, you know, going, but you could get to the ocean value that river, but so that too was nothing that was going to be significant.
So this was, again, for its time, it’s the audacity that they had to create such a long wharf.
Um, I know one thing in boston, it would never happen today, but,
it is just amazing that something this, this significant, this long, this powerful has been created in this time period.
It is really phenomenal from all aspects, from paying for it to the engineering of it to the actually completion of it.
Um, you know, it’s a wonder of the world for its time period.

Jake:
[25:59] Now that the long Wharf is completed, what sort of policies or practices are put into place to ring the most profit out of it? After all, these investors need to earn their money back. How is that supervised?

Kelly:
[26:14] In terms of what the proprietors can and cannot do. They have pretty much free rein.
Uh They own it, they control it, they set the policy so the policies that are set or either against themselves or against people who are going to be using the wharf or those who are renting the warehouses on the wharf.
If I could summarize all of the policies though into one big area, it would be the word or the two words fire prevention, that is the biggest concern that they always have about all of this is fire prevention.
And you know, for example if you have a fireplace, you can have a fireplace but the fireplace has to be created by someone who is, who has the skill set to do so,
someone from the outside, that’s their business is creating it.
And and again if you have a fire away from that fireplace and it could be a candle on the side of the table and and the war fingers sees it uh you are going to be fine right away.
Uh and and so they are very, very diligent about watching for fires.
People who are getting rid of their ashes.

[27:26] You know, there was, there was a process that you had to get rid of all your ashes. You couldn’t just you know put them in a pan and keep it by the door.
You know those things had to be removed immediately.
So that was, that was a big point and and again from a proprietor standpoint if you rented out your space to someone um and you know, again the annual rent initially was around £25 annually, which,
Today is around $5,300 give or take.
Um you, if that person didn’t pay.

[27:58] And of course that they paid all of the proprietors got a cut of that.
But if that proprietor didn’t pay you as a proprietor, you as the landlord, so to speak would have to pay the other proprietors.
So there was a lot of checks and balances there.
And that’s not even dealing with, you know, the rules of ships and vessels, you know, going up to the wharf and so forth.
But but again, you know, in terms of just the business of the wharf, you know, there were quite a few policies in that in that, in those types of ways.

Jake:
[28:28] And you introduced the term there that I think our listeners probably won’t be familiar with the war finger. Can you talk a little bit about what that role was and how it might compare to a modern harbormaster or something like that?

Kelly:
[28:34] Yes.

[28:41] Took the words right from me. Yes, that is a harbormaster today, but they were much more hands on.
And the war finger would also get a cut of the pay.
Uh so a cut of the, of the monies that they would collect in terms of rent and so forth.
Um So, so they were active in the business end of it.
But then they also were responsible for making sure the tallies that were, that were done for the war footage, making sure you know that the items that were coming off the vessels, those were all going to be taxed by the,
by the proprietors. So making sure that was done correctly.
And so at the end of the year, all of those things will be tallied.
The percentage of the war finger would get and the war finger would get one stipend at the end of the year.
And and that was so they weren’t paid monthly or anything else like that. They were they got this money at the end of the year, so they were very, very active. They were the police, they were the watchdog, they were the counter.
And they reported they, you know, they were in on every proprietor meeting when they met monthly.
They were there every month saying what’s going on, what needs to be done and what’s happening. So they were the eyes, the ears and the mouth of the of the wharf itself.

Jake:
[29:53] And so as everything is hopefully running like clockwork, with the war finger overseeing everything, the proprietors are going to be making money from dockage fees that are paid by ship masters.
There going to be making money through their own warehouses, either renting them out or what they’re shipping through their warehouses.
What were the expenses day to day or year over year for the proprietors? What did it take to keep the wharf up and running?

Kelly:
[30:18] It never ended. It was it was just constant, just about every proprietor meeting. And and again, I was able to ascertain all of these notes for every meeting.
Everyone, there was always something wrong.
So again, you got to keep in mind we’re dealing with salt water. So the sea and the, and the winds were very harsh on everything that was there.
Uh you know, again, anything that was metal that was on the wharf was constantly being replaced.
You know, lines, cables.
Uh Again as I said earlier, the uh the boardings would typically be rotting out so that would have to be replaced The foundation.
You know, there was a number of times going into the 1860s and early 1900s, the foundation always had to be checked and sometimes had to be um you know, needed maintenance.
So again it was just constant, the the the the the warehouse is always needed something going on.
So there was another, you know, $200, again going into the 1860s that needed to be here, $300 here.
And so there were some times there were some years that the proprietors did not make money, they lost money.

[31:43] And so I I kept thinking, you know, particularly by the, you know, the 3rd 4th 5th generation of proprietors, I kept thinking my gosh, they probably were saying, what did I get myself into?
You know in that regard? It was it was a little more smooth selling for the initial proprietors because everything was new, but when they’re, you know, they’re kids got the ownership and their kids got, and it went on,
you know, it did become a family heirloom, but also become a, you know, a family expense for a lot of them over time.

Jake:
[32:14] Well, that raises a good point or a good question about how ownership changed generationally, because we do see familiar names like thomas handy, said Perkins, for whose long time listeners will recognize from our episode about the china trade and,
john Hancock, a very familiar name, come into the list of proprietors.
So how do they get ownership of a stake in the war of how does that change over generations?

Kelly:
[32:38] When the proprietors, the initial proprietors were given ownership, they’re contractually, they were also given the right to sell the share.
And again, each person got one share at that time, of course, as we move through the decades that changes.
But but they could either, you know, hang onto the share themselves, they could sell it if they wanted to, of course they would they would have to pass the good old boys club there, you know, for they would allow someone else to come in, but they could sell it,
they could or they could pass it on into perpetuity to their heirs.
And so, you know, it could go generate and that of course did for about five or six of them, it would go through many generations before it was finally, you know, weather out. But but but it would go all the way through.
So they had that right um you know, to to hold it to sell it or to pass it down from generation to generation.

Jake:
[33:36] As we get into sort of the probably the second or maybe the third generation of proprietors, we come into period of american history that a lot of our listeners are more comfortable with, sort of that the Sugar Act, the stamp act, the Townshend Acts, the boston portability.
Eventually, what kind of financial impact did all these various attempts to raise revenue from the colonies have on the proprietors of Long Wharf?

Kelly:
[34:00] It was significant. Um, It got the problem as we were just speaking about the problem was the number of, of maintenance issues were increasing at the same time, that revenue was decreasing.
So it really was a difficult time for these group of proprietors in terms of how they were going to deal with it.
Uh, and, and you know, again, there’s no business coming in, so to speak. So this becomes a most certainly a serious issue.

[34:30] So one of the ways that they tried to counter this during this time period is to have a lottery and lotteries at this time were very, very popular.
There was a lottery for everything um, you know, to go, you know, to try and raise funds.
And it seems kind of strange that, you know, all of these wealthy proprietors will be having a lottery just kind of a strange thing.
But it showed the financial, you know, the dire straits financially that they were all going through this was their only recourse.
And so the lottery takes place, they were able to raise money, enough money to actually at least put a band aid on the repairs that they needed to have done.
I don’t get the sense that the wharf would have fallen into total disrepair and would eventually have, um, you know, totally collapsed.

[35:21] But I do get the sense that if they, if that lottery would not have taken place that again, they would have been years and years behind in terms of trying to restore it.
So it was significant that they did take that that action of a lottery going forward.
And then, you know, the other things that that would also take place after the war is that a lot of the proprietors started to to invest into other areas, you know, like the trains, the banks and so forth.
So the wharf starts to become in terms of an investment more of that secondary, more of, well now we are helping the community.
So it does take on a little a little different nuance I’m getting, I’m getting a little ahead of myself there, but but I want to at least, you know, kind of show how things are starting to change really from the from the revolution on.

Jake:
[36:08] Well, another thing, another, I think it seems like a big change to me, at least during that period, is the proprietors finally become they legally incorporate. They become a corporation rather than just a series of a group of partners.
How does, how does that change their arrangement?

Kelly:
[36:24] Other than Harvard College. My research showed that this was the 2nd inc in America.

Jake:
[36:30] Wow.

Kelly:
[36:30] Yeah, so, and I didn’t, I don’t think I explicitly stated it because I never know, but, but I’m pretty sure it’s that that’s the case. So it was certainly one of the first in corporations that take place.
And I actually, I wrote a article in a peer reviewed journal on this, this particular subject. So I’ll try to keep it a little short. But In essence, what the incorporation did was two things.
So one thing was, as you probably, many of your listeners are probably, where would you become incorporated?
You now have legal protection of your personal property.
So if something bad happened to the wharf or someone did something wrong on the wharf, these proprietors now could not individually be sued, you could sue the corporation, but now not the individual. So one, there was this legal protection that took place.
But the second reason and the main reason why they became incorporated was that now they could get more investors.

[37:26] So now again, this so called stock could be offered to other people who would want to invest, not just this close knit group of people who held the stock from one generation to another generation.
Now, during that time, before they, before long work became incorporated during that time frame at least, um the amount of stock that a,
Proprietor could hold that did increase, so it was no longer one share for one person, you know, there was some that owned 15 shares, something on 10, but it was capped.
But now that cap would increase significantly when long wharf became incorporated.
And so, so yeah, that was that was a really significant aspect. And so that also meant, of course, that long wharf proprietors, which are now more than one, could now have another steady form of income.
Those people who are investing in the company by buying the stock, that money could also be put back into the be put back into the wharf itself for maintenance.

Jake:
[38:32] Obviously, this must be a time of changing the economics of Long Wharf because we have first the boston pork bill and the siege of boston, which essentially entirely shut down commerce on boston harbor.
And then we have the evacuation of boston going into a wartime economy in boston. I thought it was interesting to read that during the war, especially immediately after the evacuation, a lot of the ship masters in boston turned to private, tearing.
What kind of effect did that have on commerce at Long Wharf?

Kelly:
[39:01] It certainly wasn’t something that was going to replace, um, uh, the steady income that you would have through regular economic trade.
But it did, again, using the Band Aid term, it did put a Band Aid on, you know, some of these, some of these uh proprietors, some would not get involved with private tearing at all.
They felt it was beneath them. And they were going to, you know, go ahead and try to overcome everything through their own investments in other areas.
But others were much more aggressive. And so yeah, they would take their vessels and they would go and seek other british vessels and overtake them, bring back the bounty and sell it just like they would sell it, um, you know, in the warehouses before the war.
So it was that for some of them, it was another fundamental process of doing business. But I would say that I don’t think it was at the level that was again equal to, or even near equal to regular economic business.
It was just another process that they could do to make a few bucks.

Jake:
[40:06] And for listeners who are interested, I’ll go ahead and plug stay tuned in.
May I believe we’re going to have an interview with ERic J.
Dolan about his book, Rebels at Sea, All about private tearing the Revolutionary War and we’ll be focusing on private hearing in boston in that conversation,
it seems like the close of the war for independence, more or less coincided with the construction of some new wars on the boston waterfront that,
maybe they weren’t exactly as long as long warfare as massive, but they were similar scale and much more competitive than the earlier wars.
What kind of impact did that have on the long war proprietors? And I guess now the corporation?

Kelly:
[40:45] Yeah, it was very significant. Um Again, the competition became very intense.
India wharf in particular was taking a great deal of business from the, from the proprietors.
It was, you know, it’s new and shiny. It’s, it’s in a, it’s in a location that’s very advantageous.
Um, and and of course as we, as we move to, you know long war in and of itself, the city wanting to basically cut it in half.
Uh you no longer starts to stutter, it’s no longer looked upon. You know, as I mentioned in the book, it in some ways it was the first outdoor mall in America.
You could walk down long wharf during, you know, certain times and you could buy anything that you wanted from just about any country that you wanted from,
silverware to duck to, you know, flower to find us to find china linens. I mean everything was there.
And now again it’s um, it’s kind of taking this turn as the economy changes and the people change.

[41:51] Uh and and all of a sudden the proprietors are saying jesus other vessels are starting to go to India war for more than ours.
And so they try to do a few tricks. For example, one of the unique attributes that long we’ve had was that it was one of the first horse that had running water, fresh water at all these docking stations.
So they had to drill a well for that. And that kind of helped, you know, vessels, which is, we’d like to have that. So somebody so they did these little things that we try to get more and more business there.
But but it slowly started to depreciate. Um,
and you know, again, other smaller wars start to start to come up and, you know, they all have unique attributes and it’s really just a numbers game.
They’re no longer the quote unquote big dog. It’s there’s this other wharfs and they are slowly taking and draining business from a mercantile perspective, you know, from the proprietors.

Jake:
[42:49] Now, if you’ll indulge me just for a minute, about two years ago on the show, I did an episode about an incident that happened happened during the drilling of that well on Long Wharf and some folks who are,
three workmen were nearly killed, but basically they ran into swamp gas.
But I very much focused on the construction techniques and how they kept the water out and how they were trying to drill down into this sort of captive aquifer to have an Artesian well.
And I don’t feel like I explained very well why a well was wanted on Long Wharf. So can you indulge me just for a minute and talk a little bit about why that would have been important.

Kelly:
[43:27] You have a couple of different things, I think taking place. So one was, I mean, obviously we’re looking for the water itself as a form of consumption for individuals who are on the wharf, that’s one piece of it.

[43:39] And if you, if you were on a vessel docked on long wharf, you would have, you could go back to your supplies that were, you know, in a barrel, which must have tasted, you know, disgustingly.
So, you know, you would have that or you would trek into town and you know, retrieve water, bring it back, you know, going forward.
So, so, you know, it basically, and this was heavy work.
It would basically be a very, you know, laborious process.
And so to have a water supply right there where I could basically, you know, walk a few steps, get the water I need for my next voyage or the water.
I’m a need for any type of cleaning or whatever that I need to do in terms of my business.
Uh this was a, you know, this was a big, this was a, a very big step in terms of that because again, keep in mind at least in the initial days, you know, do you want to walk a half a mile of water?
So, you know, if you’re at the end of the, of the, you know, the pier. So yeah, so I think from my perspective, it was more practicality than anything else.
And then once that well was tapped that the piping could be, you know, again strung out and to go wherever it wanted to throughout the wharf.

[44:58] And so again, I as I recall, I’m trying to think of the number, but I think,
that they the proprietors and anticipated that they would make around $3-$5,000 more a year just because of the of this whale.
Yeah, it was pretty significant, you know, as an innovation at that time.
And again, as I said, the only reason they’re doing it is to try to combat the competition, trying to show that, you know, we do have certain, certain attributes that maybe some other wars don’t have.

Jake:
[45:30] And so that’s happening right on the, on the turn of the century, the turn of the 19th century.
How does the coming of the 19th century Change? Commerce on Long Wharf? I suppose the coming of the war of 1812 and the British blockade of North America must have had some impact.

Kelly:
[45:47] Yes. So as we, as we start to, you know move along here in the time frame, we would see that again, I think I used, I used the term in the book, it was still business as usual per se.
So you know, there wasn’t much difference in terms of maybe what was going on in the past, but the type of commerce that was being, you know that was being transferred was going to be a little bit different. Now.
Uh there is more, I would say a small shift, not significant but certainly a small shift that was taking place.

[46:22] That was toward more food items, less towards products that were you know clothing and material products.
Because now we can see there are other ways of getting those things including that they were being manufactured in America.
So so maybe a lot of the products themselves were being and I would also say the vessels themselves, a lot of them were not coming from europe, but they were coming from other um you know other coastal areas in America.

[46:50] So you know again the the triangulation of trade that would take place was still there,
but it was also becoming more of a duality whereas in boston something would be shipped down to charleston as an example and then tobacco products would be shipped back up.
Or we would shift to the Chesapeake area and products from the Chesapeake would be coming back up.
So It was or Pennsylvania. So you know what what the proprietors are looking for here,
is the best deal prior to um you know, I would say 18, 12, certainly prior to that, it was, I just need the product, I’ll pay whatever we have to pay and I’ll pass that on to the person who’s going to buy it to the consumer.
Now, it was more strategically, I can get wheat from pennsylvania, cheaper, then I can get wheat from south Carolina or that I can produce it here in massachusetts.
So I’m going to, you know, that’s how the trading was going to be done.
So I would say it became a little bit more pinpoint, a little bit more exact and maybe a little bit more local, per se, with a focus more on food items than a lot of the material things that we look at.

Jake:
[48:01] It sounds like as the 19th century wears on. Not only did things like food items become a higher share of the trade, but the interior trade within the US becomes a more important factor in commerce all along the East Coast.
I immediately think then, of the Erie Canal and how the Erie Canal makes new york city basically the homeport of a huge swath of,
from New England to the Great Lakes, basically everything that can can access sort of the Hudson mohawk drainage all of a sudden, is serviced by by the Erie Canal.
Does that competition change the importance of long wharf and the importance of boston as a ports city?

Kelly:
[48:41] Oh, absolutely, absolutely. And and I’ll add one other piece that too.
But, but the, the Erie canal, that was such a significant event,
and I think that um, you know, those individuals who have wars, they can kind of see the writing on the wall that they are going to have to shift,
economically, that they can’t just be wholly dependent upon the sea industry for their economy.
That was the, that was certainly the economic perspective of, of boston during this time period.
And I think once the year E Canal comes into play and we can move goods from Canada, we can move goods from the end from the almost the midwest and and ship them over and more importantly we can go the other way.

[49:30] And so, you know, that was another, you know that it was a two way street here.
And so, you know, places like Cincinnati now becomes significant in terms of hog slaughtering and, and farm production.
Um, you know, as we start to move west towards, you know what we consider west at that time towards Kentucky.
I mean all of these areas now start to become their own economic center and so uh, you know, they have more choice. It’s not just all we need to, you know, if I’m in western mass, I don’t need to purchase just from boston.
So, you know, we have these other areas developing and then the other thing of course is the rail industry is coming around and as I note in the book, you know, it’s kind of looking at the mirror, your own demise,
one of the first locomotives ever in America landed on Long Wharf, it was called, it was called the Media and that was just the start.
So yeah, you know, the, the point being is that now there are more avenues to trade.
We have, you know, we have vessels that are in canals, man made canals, we have the rail industry and so yeah, I mean boston is going to have to change economically.
Uh, you know, they can still do some of the same things, but you know, long wharf now becomes more, you know, as an example, it becomes a transport station.

[50:49] You can now, you know, you can get on a vessel and move and, and now these vessels become more called the package vessels.
So you know, they’re not just sending along foodstuffs, but they’re sending mail and other items.
So you know, there’s a shift that takes place in terms of long wharf and what’s being traded, but also obviously among all of the wharfs on the harbor at that time.

Jake:
[51:11] It also sounds like with the transition to steam ships needed different facilities, so if if steam vessels weren’t docking at Long Wharf, where were they going?

Kelly:
[51:21] Right. So, you know, again, I would still say, you know, India wharf was still very popular.
Uh The biggest one though was T wharf.
So T Wharf actually now dwarf is still connected to long wharf.
Um and T wharf itself is uh,
you know, obviously it’s right next door, they are more, probably at this point in time, they are more the fishing industry,
but T wharf has a fleet, for example, of steam ships uh that are tug vessels, so they tugged the bigger vessels out and that’s all located there.
But again, in terms of the steam vessels uh there I have throughout the book, a number of photos still showing long wharf servicing those, but you’re right, they’re bigger.
So a long wharf now is smaller, so, you know, you’re talking, I think some of the photos I’m looking at, you could longer could probably hold maybe two large steam vessels and that’s it.
So, you know, again, uh income is not the big aspect here. So long wharf knows they’re going to have to make their money with what’s on the wharf.
And that’s where the change economically takes place, where the fruit industry starts to set up shop on long wharf and that is all steam ships, you know, loading and loading fruit.
And and again, it becomes a very centralized place for not only boston to get fruit, but for all of massachusetts.

Jake:
[52:47] Expand on that a little bit, if you don’t mind, first of all, who was moving into trade fruit or to sell fruit in boston, and then how did that change the economics of the wharf?

Kelly:
[52:57] Yeah, so, and again, I don’t know if there was a, you know, this small change that actually took place versus something that occurred very, very quickly,
But I want to say, this is around the early 1900s where the change really took place in terms of the fruit industry itself.
So most of the businesses that were, or the steam ships that were coming in and that’s actually the cover of the book, you can see two of these steamships that are fruit centric in this regard, but Muslims are coming from the Dominican,
um and the big company that’s on Long Wharf is the United Fruit company and it is a really big company in terms of, you know what’s ah.

[53:41] In the fruit industry in and of itself, but there are others, I think I list probably around 789 other fruit companies who are coming to long war from South America and delivering fruit.
And again, this is a total, you know, again, this is a totally, totally different perspective in terms of what happened in the past, where you had merchants and all these different little merchant stores and all of these different types of products that they’re selling.
Uh Longworth now has changed where it is now.
This huge, basically, it’s tough to walk on Long Wharf, it’s basically this huge building,
that’s encompassing all of Long war and inside the building or two or three different fruit companies and they are delivering everything from, you know, any kind of fruit, you can think of two bananas were probably the biggest ones, but.

Jake:
[54:32] Right, right, and then the United Fruit Company, of course, Being associated in the 20th century with Banana Republics and the Caribbean and Central America.

Kelly:
[54:38] Exactly, Exactly, this was really long war for about 30 years, really, 40 years.
This was their main their main stay. And you know, again, it did employ a great number of people, so it did have an economic presence.
And and again, to keep in mind at this time, the proprietors are basically just getting checks from United Fruit Company and the seven or 8 other companies.
This is how they are generating income at this at this point in time.

Jake:
[55:08] And it’s all it’s consolidating into one industry, one type of trade instead of all these individual warehouses and individual companies. Previously.

Kelly:
[55:15] Exactly, definitely the changes that has taken place here.

Jake:
[55:20] He said that’s how the proprietors were making their money at that time. There was a point, sort of, at the beginning of the 20th century, you wrote in the book that if the wharf couldn’t produce the income, the proprietors were after they had turned to other investment opportunities.
So I thought it was interesting that they still worked collectively, but they were investing outside the wharf itself.

Kelly:
[55:39] Yeah, yeah, that’s a great pick up and that was incredibly unique, particularly looking at it through the lens of today, that would be kind of unheard of other than maybe some non profits.
So certainly they were, they felt that if they stayed collectively together as a corporation and, and of course the laws are changing where a corporation can now invest in another corporation.
And and that really occurs in the 1920s. So they feel that they stayed to collectively together, they’re going to have more money to invest.
And so it made sense for them to stay together, invest in the railroad industry, to stay together, invest in a cement company as an example.
And so you could, you would look at, they would look at all of these opportunities and again collect money that way and they would share that money based upon the ratio of stock ownership.
So it was a very unique strategy for for that time period.
And I would also say it does point out that the mission of the proprietors had significantly changed from making money on long wharf to doing this as a part of a public kind of a public service.

[56:52] You know, we’re not making money here. And it,
it became kind of this chick thing uh oh I own a stock and long wharf, it became this,
you know, this this this attribute that was,
that had meaning that was more meaning on paper, you know, I kind of equate it to is like having a stock ownership in the boston Celtics, It exists, the Green Bay packers that exists, but it has no value.
And so these guys, though they, as you point out, you know, they stayed collective and they did look for value in other areas.

Jake:
[57:25] So between outside investment and the United Fruit Company that keeps the proprietorship afloat,
into the 20th century, and it sounds like into the 19 fifties, but then,
eventually Long Wharf is sold, and then there’s a merger with Lewis Wharf and Commercial Wharf, how does the proprietorship eventually sort of sink into obscurity?

Kelly:
[57:49] Essentially, it came to a point where even though the wharf itself is very small, it becomes a point that the proprietors just do not see a reason to keep any kind of maintenance.
And as we’ve already mentioned, the competition, even with the fruit industry had having been there, uh that becomes an issue.
But the big thing, the big change that took place was that Mayor Quincy initially, again, kind of got this started,
whereas in the, in the 18 twenties, where,
he was again transforming the boston waterfront, so to speak, and again putting in landfill and, and, and the wharf gets cut in half, and the wharf itself now, is it,
uh you know, for the most part, just this little small speck that kind of got everything started from a timeline perspective.
And now the change takes place one more time where the city of boston now wants this, this district to be more of a tourist type of perspective.

[58:51] And so they’re looking for ways that they can actually doing that.
And and one of the things is having a wharf with a rickety old building that says fruit is getting rid of that.
And so they look at again, essentially by eminent domain taking Long wharf.
Um and and that basically is what’s happened.
And so they basically, they take over T wharf,
they, you know, they tear down t wharf, but the city itself decides to keep Long wharf as a part of this, new, this new idea of making that area more of a tourist attraction.
And I put out in there in the book, you know, of course that meant the construction of the Marriott hotel keeping the chart house, keeping a couple of structures on there.
Um And you know, making that a part of boston’s historic walking towards those kinds of things.
So so again um you know this was basically the, as I point out in here, the actual design and the construction of all of this, but basically this was the government,
taking over the actual wharf itself.

Jake:
[1:00:03] I guess part of the decline of Long Wharf can be sort of tracked in the physical shrinking of long wharf.

Kelly:
[1:00:10] Yes.

Jake:
[1:00:11] I guess it’s it’s attacked at both ends and on the, on the short side there’s the filling of the town cove and then later the construction of Atlantic Avenue. How do they change the landscape around Long Wharf?

Kelly:
[1:00:26] Yeah, it changed it significantly because again we were coming back and you’re looking at in the street on uh you know, the the structure becomes short, much smaller.
Uh And as I point out in the book, the columbus park right next to long wharf.
Uh that was once t wharf. So you can kind of get an idea of what the fill the landfill did there in that respect.
Uh and and again the proprietors at this point when this was all taking place and you know, again in the 1800s, the proprietors needed the money.
So it was kind and and they knew the competition, you know, this made it somewhat gave them a back door out because I believe they got, believe they’ve got $100,000 for this,
and at the same time they now had less maintenance because they had last year, last wharf.
So so it made sense for them to go in that route, you know, for this time period.
And but again, this was that, as I mentioned, this was that first step to the deconstruction of what long wharf is and was at that time period.
And, you know, again, it was that that kind of, that first demise, so to speak, going on.

Jake:
[1:01:37] When I think about Long Wharf, I associate has that date 17 11 attached to it.
I have strong associations with the british landings in 17 68 but you know, it has a history, a much more recent history, too.
And I I was very interested to read about the urban renewal period and how Even that recently long wharf was undergoing transformations.
What are some of the more recent changes sort of the 1960s through the 80s through today that that long wars undergone?

Kelly:
[1:02:06] Yeah so it was the B. R. A. The boston redevelopment authority.
Uh They were the ones that really got this idea of making it more of a tourist type of area.
Uh and they’ve got started in that regard. So uh and I and I should correct the eminent domain.

[1:02:29] That was that was for another structure.
The so the boston redevelopment authority for the most part the property of Long Long Wharf and everything surrounded Long Wharf itself.
Uh That was purchased.
So the B. R. A. Purchased Long Wharf and once they took ownership of it, then they started to again put everything into place in terms of what they wanted to actually have.
And and the book has, you know, Mayor White’s actions and uh you know all of the players under the B.
R. A. And and as you can imagine, I mean there was the political aspect is there in terms of everything going kind of back and forth through all of this with Mayor White,
in 1979 and approving plans and you know all of those, all of those variables.

[1:03:15] Um So but but one of the things I thought was is very unique though in terms of ownership.
So the National Park Service actually owns the tip of Long Wharf and they were given that because Long Wharf is a historic landmark.
And so um you know again if there was anything historical that would need to be further displayed or discussed or examined, they wanted some leadership, the city wanted leadership to be able to do that.
So so the the Nps actually um I bought the, br bought the tip of the wharf for almost a million dollars, $825,000.
So with the understanding that the tip of long wharf is actually Parkland forever.

[1:04:00] Um, so, so that kind of encapsulates it as being a, a tourist site, so to speak, you know, going forward.
So you know, again, so from that standpoint, whenever you know, the, the annual tall ships brigade takes place, you know, Longworth is a very central point where people go and look.
Um, but you know, again, as I, as I mentioned, we don’t really know about the history of what happened prior to that, which is kind of unfortunate,
but um, but yeah, so the, the, the Marriott hotel that was developed on their, uh,
is a, you know, again, a very important piece, uh, the couple of restaurants that are there and of course it’s right next door to a lot of the,
uh, the, the tourist ships vessels that go in and out and you know, show boston harbor.
So um, so yeah, so, so today, yeah, it is a, you know, it is an attribute, not a significant part, but it’s an attribute to boston’s overall strategy of a tourist destination.

Jake:
[1:05:02] Well, with that focus today of Longworth being a tourist destination, If someone is visiting Longworth today, and they want to connect with this sort of long and storied past, what should they do or see?
To get beyond just the Marriott Hotel or the harbor cruises to see or experience a little bit of the original Long wharf.

Kelly:
[1:05:23] Yeah, I think you have to use your imagination. Um, you know, in terms of doing that, but um, but in terms of those significant events, uh, and I obviously I’m,
that I visit there all the time and I kind of do this every time when I’m sitting down at long wharf,
um, is that, you know, you can easily visualize, uh, you know, the, what once was.
Um, you know, I have a, uh, in the book, I have a picture that’s juxtaposition with a painting of the british evacuating boston,
and the way this picture is that it looks like it’s almost the same spot where you can see the british literally leaving boston,
evacuating.
Uh, and, and you know, the other thing I keep, I keep in my mind, I’m thinking that is that slaves were bought and sold on vessels on long wharf and in the, and in the warehouses and long wharf.

[1:06:20] And you know, to think that’s, that, that’s something like that occurred on right where you’re sitting is pretty powerful I think.
Uh, and, and of course, you know, during the american revolution, the british leave at the tip of long wharf just as you would see it now they leave from the tip of long wharf to go to the battle of breed’s Hill, A K a bunker hill.
And that was, you know, that was the launching point.
And to think that those soldiers came back to long wharf and they were laying on,
along the decks of long wharf bloodied, uh dying and they’re laying right there and you’re, you know, you’re sitting there today and you can kind of visualize that again I think is interesting.
And as I said that that history, that marker of history, um, you know, certainly Longworth doesn’t get the recognition as if annual haul wood or,
um, you know, some of the other famous places, uh, you know, in boston, but.

[1:07:22] At the same time it does have that, I think a very good representative history not only economically but also socially and certainly militarily speaking,
um, of, of the history of boston I think, you know, again, it’s, it’s all right there.
Uh, you know, right right there and you can still, you know, be at those points.
So again, I’m glad for whatever strange reason that they did not get rid of the tip of long Wharf because I think it’s a really important piece of, of boston history and american history for that matter.

Jake:
[1:07:55] I don’t want to give listeners the wrong impression that in our conversation we’re very much focused on sort of a linear development of the economics of long work.
But the book has so much more rich detail. It has stories about the crown coffeehouse, about the reception of john Adams when he arrives back in boston after a decade or more away from his hometown.
And there’s there’s so many more stories about the hanging packet and the immigration station on Long Wharf.
So listeners should read on to get a little bit more of those those vignettes of, of life on Long Wharf dr kelly Kilcrease If people want to follow you and your work online, where should they look for that?

Kelly:
[1:08:34] Being a professor at the University of New Hampshire, you can,
google my name under UNH and you can find my web page where I do have a listing of, of another book, uh, and some some journal articles that are in the area of,
urban history and business history.
So you can find those there.

Jake:
[1:08:55] And we’ll make sure to link to a place you can purchase the book and this week’s show notes at hub history dot com slash 245 kelly. I just want to say thanks again.
Thank you very much for for joining us here today.

Kelly:
[1:09:10] Well, thank you very much. And, and as I mentioned earlier, I’m really appreciative of this podcast. I listened to it all the time and I’m glad I’m able to finally make a contribution. So thank you.

Jake:
[1:09:20] Oh, thank you. I didn’t know you were a listener.

Kelly:
[1:09:22] Absolutely. Absolutely.

Jake:
[1:09:25] To learn more about boston’s Long Wharf. Check out this week’s show notes at hub history dot com slash 245.
I have a link to by dr Kilcrease book, boston’s Long war for Path to the Sea, as well as a link to his UNH faculty profile.
Plus I like to a few past podcast episodes that I think are related to, topics we discussed, including the show about the Well on Long Wharf where three men almost died.
The one about thomas sims and Anthony burns being returned to the south under the fugitive slave act.
The episode where Pavlyuchenkova explained how the need for ballast transformed some of our harbor islands and our interview with J. L. Bell way back in episode 100 Who told us about the landing of the British at Long Wharf in 1768.
If you’d like to get in touch with us, you can email us at podcast at hub history dot com.
We are hub history on twitter facebook and instagram. Or you can go to hub history dot com and click on the contact us link while you’re on the site, hit the subscribe link and be sure that you never miss an episode.
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If you do drop me a line and I’ll send you a hub history sticker as a token of appreciation.

Music

Jake:
[1:10:43] That’s all for now. Stay safe out there listeners.